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Forty years of programming

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Re: Forty years of programming

#41
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one sentence that isn't meaningful to the text, and that's the one you wish to comment on? I started programming a few years later, maybe at 8 or so, but I would absolutely call that programming. I still have the note pads somewhere. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's a beginner's first steps on a computer that does not exist.

Wait. You started out by scribbling down programs on a notepad and no computer? That's both adorable and inspiring. Were you working with BASIC? I'm super curious what this was like for you.

I did this too! Not on a notepad, but on a Royal typewriter, age 10. My dad had a telecommunications consulting business, based on a remote Univac mainframe he rented time on. He'd bring his Texas Instruments Silent 700 printer-terminal home from work, and I'd sometimes get to play Adventure and what-not if he wasn't using it. I vividly remember typing my first BASIC program on the typewriter, one afternoon after school, and then waiting excitedly for him to get home so I could actually type the program into the terminal. (Pretty sure the program was: 10 PRINT "HELLO" / 20 GOTO 10.)

EDIT: This would have been ~1976.

Re: Forty years of programming

#42

I too have been programming for 40 years, am in early 60's, and amazed that I have no real wrist issues from all that time of typing, etc. I've also been a pretty avid WASD + Mouse gamer for a long time as well, and I think gaming probably causes me more issues than programming.

Same here, same setup as his 1st step. No need for fancy standup mouse, ergonomic keyboard or all that crap. This guy deserves a "your weakness disgust me" gif on his blog.

Hahah, oh dear, and you claim to be early 60s too? And yet here you are still acting like a teenager on the internet. It's fun to be young, but you have to put it behind you at some point.

Re: Forty years of programming

#43
I took the opportunity to learn an alternate KB layout (Workman) and I think that has been beneficial for my hands, which are average to slightly smaller than average, so QWERTY movements like T are a slight stretch. Have also got the split KB (Kinesis Freestyle Edge, which is OK. Would like something that can run QMK or similar). Also paying attention to the little nags and working them out is definitely valuable. For, e.g. I run 'g sta' (git status) often, as well as 'g lscm' (git log -20 --pretty etc); now I use Bash bindings to run both with Ctrl+j, and 'cls' with Ctrl+l. I've even started using the KB's 'action keys' (I.e. those ones that aren't part of the standard ANSI/layout) for Winkey+1..n to spare my left hand the awkward chord from winkey to the number row. I also run a trackball for dev and a mouse for gaming so that I split my use over different muscles. Hoping it all keeps any kind of injury at bay.

Re: Forty years of programming

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, same setup as his 1st step. No need for fancy standup mouse, ergonomic keyboard or all that crap. This guy deserves a "your weakness disgust me" gif on his blog.

That’s a bit harsh. 57 here and my forearms, elbows, and wrists are f…ouled up without an ergonomic split keyboard and some other accommodations. Bodies are different, and if this guy is a rock climber, that might have something to do with it. But flat, tight keyboards give me tendinitis in as little as a day. I can’t even use my laptop without an external keyboard, which kinda defeats the purpose, but it’s what work…

I climb and the typical position at workstation of hands pronated + shoulders forward sucks for postural health. I currently am dealing with bilateral proximal bicep tendonitis from excessive climbing and even being at the computer for a few minutes aggravates it. I wonder if it's possible to rig something up to be able to type in a supinated hand position and if it would be not super infuriating.

Re: Forty years of programming

#45
A WARNING for anyone who thinks this article doesn't apply to them:

If you are reading this post and thinking, "oh I don't have these problems, I'm going to read something else", I encourage you to pause.

Having been in this industry for a while, I have seen RSI-type injuries happen to HUGE portions of my colleagues. I've met many people who have changed careers over this.

The reality is that spending 8-10+ hours a day in front of a keyboard is grueling on the hands, wrist, and arms (not to mention it can be for your back and neck as well).

It isn't a matter of "if", but "when". For some the result is more impactful on their daily life than others, but it does affect nearly everyone to some extent.

So I encourage anyone who is still young, thinking this is a post for "old people", to consider applying some of these principals today in hopes of pushing these problems further down the road or maybe even to put you in the minority of people who never have to deal with them in their career. The apple mighty-mouse thing (whatever they call it now) is horrible for your wrists and hands, throw it in the trash. Consider investing in some of these tools now, so you don't suffer later.

In a similar vein, take care of your posture which can save you from back problems and neck or spine injuries later. Sit/stand desks are great options and readily available now (and relatively affordable). Consider an ergonomic chair as well, and don't be afraid to spend good money on it. You spend 8-10+ hours a day in it. It's worth spending $1,000 on a desk and $1,000 on a chair that will save you thousands in medical bills and a priceless amount of avoided pain down the road. It's funny to me how many engineers making $150k or more a year and won't spend $2,000 on a good desk setup (which lasts for many many years). If you have a work-from-home budget, spend it on ergonomic tools, not a fancy monitor with a higher refresh rate.

Re: Forty years of programming

#46

A WARNING for anyone who thinks this article doesn't apply to them: If you are reading this post and thinking, "oh I don't have these problems, I'm going to read something else", I encourage you to pause. Having been in this industry for a while, I have seen RSI-type injuries happen to HUGE portions of my colleagues. I've met many people who have changed careers over this. The reality is that spending 8-10+ hours a d…

Also take frequent breaks! Get out of your chair often. If you're literally sitting 8-10 hours a day, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Forty years of programming

#47

A WARNING for anyone who thinks this article doesn't apply to them: If you are reading this post and thinking, "oh I don't have these problems, I'm going to read something else", I encourage you to pause. Having been in this industry for a while, I have seen RSI-type injuries happen to HUGE portions of my colleagues. I've met many people who have changed careers over this. The reality is that spending 8-10+ hours a d…

Also take frequent breaks! Get out of your chair often. If you're literally sitting 8-10 hours a day, you're doing it wrong.

Good advice. When I was young I used to just "plug in" for one constant (more or less) session all day long. I don't know how I did it to be honest.

But yeah now, I NEED breaks. Walk around, get a snack, go for a quick walk outside. Really anything to break it up. The impact is better on you mentally as well as physically.

Re: Forty years of programming

#48
After less than a decade of programming around 8-10 hours every day, I could barely use my hands anymore. My forarms and shoulders were like marbles. I even stopped playing musical instruments because moving my finders was torture. Vim and split keybord (Dygma Raise) was my solution. I could feel the difference right away now, almost a year later, I don’t feel any pain at all. I feel lucky because I know people who have had to have surgery.

Re: Forty years of programming

#49
I've been using computers since I was a pre-teen, it wrecked both my forearms (and later, my neck) in my early 30's. There was NO WARNING, the issues just happened out of nowhere. I always thought RSI, if it happened to me, would happen gradually and I'd know to stop/rest. The neck stuff has taken a decade to heal and it's still not back to normal.

Re: Forty years of programming

#50
im a little older than the author. I also play a musical instrument that I guess you would say is physically demanding, and I have a hobby that is sort of hard on the hands. On the forums I inevitably follow about those activities, there is a sort of background of paranoia about how if you don't do everything perfectly all the time, your hands will be ruined, you will never have seen it coming, and you should base all your decision-making regarding practice time around avoiding catastrophic injury.

I'm sure there are some other people who share my interests who have been the victims of misfortune when it comes to RSI injuries, but I think for the bulk of us who do anything repetitive, it's not incredibly difficult to avoid these issues if you just pay attention to what you feel.

For example, on Friday I noticed that, after pretty much a solid week of intense editing of code (I wrote a large thing and then realized I had gotten it all wrong and needed to move a lot of stuff into different files), I kept noticing that my elbows were killing me because they were grinding into the armrests of my chair. It didn't dawn on me until the end of the week that the reason I don't usually have that elbow discomfort is that years ago I took the armrests off my chair, or as the case with my current chair, I folded them backward and out of the way. I had put them down to clean them or something and forgot about it.

If I mind myself, I'll notice the stuff that makes me uncomfortable. If I try doing whatever that is less and I feel better, then I've learned something. If I stop doing the thing that I've learned makes me uncomfortable, that's great. If I did it too long and I need to visit a doctor or a therapist to help me undo the damage, that's great too.

So long story short, pay attention to how you feel, recognize that however you feel is probably a result of the choices you've made, intentionally or not, and treat your body as a machine that needs maintenance and either find a good technician or learn to do it yourself when it makes sense.

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