French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales • Hacker News Board

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#41

Post by J3L2404 » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:03 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #39

J3L2404 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to anyone offended by pimply , but this idea that anything copyable deserves no copyright is childish. Exceedingly so on a site about software.

Copyright is a red herring. What we want is to encourage creation of valuable information products and services. Historically, copyright was one way of doing that, because copying information directly was difficult and required apparatus and physical tokens that could be policed relatively easily. When copying becomes as simple and trivial as breathing, policing the act of copying becomes intrusive and laborious. So…

Whether you like or not copyright law still exists. It has been dismissed on message boards but has not been repealed.

When there is a viable mechanism of content creation it will gradually take over, just like every industry.

You can't tell people to give up their horse and buggy if the cars aren't ready yet.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#42

Post by Androsynth » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:26 PM UTC

J3L2404 wrote: post #41

barrkel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is a red herring. What we want is to encourage creation of valuable information products and services. Historically, copyright was one way of doing that, because copying information directly was difficult and required apparatus and physical tokens that could be policed relatively easily. When copying becomes as simple and trivial as breathing, policing the act of copying becomes intrusive and laborious. So…

Whether you like or not copyright law still exists. It has been dismissed on message boards but has not been repealed. When there is a viable mechanism of content creation it will gradually take over, just like every industry. You can't tell people to give up their horse and buggy if the cars aren't ready yet.

Whether you like or not copyright law still exists

Because the govt is receiving boatloads of money from the entities that profit from copyright laws.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#43

Post by s8qnze982y » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:29 PM UTC

J3L2404 wrote: post #26

alan_cx wrote: post #21

Well, its all based on the idea that people who "illegally" download would have bought the item otherwise. Really not true. Mostly the reason is either convenience or lack of cash to buy in the first place. I think of all the CD's I bought in the past which turned out to be garbage apart from the two singles released which are the reason for buying the CD. I think of all the DVD's I bought that I watched once. Now I…

>People are valuing your product as zero. Where they don't, they buy. No. The popular content is downloaded more. You can jump thru hoops and do backflips but the fact is people don't want to pay. Period. Everything else is justification.

> the fact is people don't want to pay. Period. Everything else is justification.

This is a false and very cheap thought. For two reasons:

1) there isn't a thing such as "[all the] people". I know many people who don't want to pay, and I know many people who want to pay. you can't really prove even that most of the people belongs to the first category.

2) even if we assumed that "people don't want to pay", this wouldn't explain the examples of mainstream products that have been (successfully) sold by donation, which shows that there is a sufficient (at the very least) people that does want to pay. a couple of examples are radiohead and a comedian whose name I forgot, but also many others.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#44

Post by Androsynth » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:35 PM UTC

J3L2404 wrote: post #26

alan_cx wrote: post #21

Well, its all based on the idea that people who "illegally" download would have bought the item otherwise. Really not true. Mostly the reason is either convenience or lack of cash to buy in the first place. I think of all the CD's I bought in the past which turned out to be garbage apart from the two singles released which are the reason for buying the CD. I think of all the DVD's I bought that I watched once. Now I…

>People are valuing your product as zero. Where they don't, they buy. No. The popular content is downloaded more. You can jump thru hoops and do backflips but the fact is people don't want to pay. Period. Everything else is justification.

Convenience. If you think that's not a relevant reason you're just being pig-headed.

I pay for netflix and Amazon Prime. In fact I would pay 2-3x more for netflix if they had everything. (Not even new stuff, but old stuff)

I don't buy dvd's because the value is not there for me. If I am just going to watch something once or twice, its worth ~$1 to me, not $20 like a new dvd.

I don't go down to blockbuster/Red Box because the negative utility of getting in my car and going to a store is worse than just downloading it.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#45

Post by sek » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:45 PM UTC

The reason why the Entertainment industry loses so much was never just piracy, the majority are the alternatives that are available on the internet. All this time people spend on Soundcloud and Facebook has to come somewhere. A YouTube catvideo replaces time people can spend on TV or hearing their favorite artist.

They all have a MBA who are in charge these entertainment companies, they should have heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis Substitute goods everywhere and you gonna have a difficult time, but blaming someone else is probably just easier.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#46

Post by mikeash » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:48 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #27

Of course, the point of laws and law enforcement is to cut crime, which this did.

That's foolish. If the only point of laws was to cut crime, you could trivially reduce crime to zero by legalizing everything. Clearly that is not the point.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#47

Post by guard-of-terra » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 5:50 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #21

Well, its all based on the idea that people who "illegally" download would have bought the item otherwise. Really not true. Mostly the reason is either convenience or lack of cash to buy in the first place. I think of all the CD's I bought in the past which turned out to be garbage apart from the two singles released which are the reason for buying the CD. I think of all the DVD's I bought that I watched once. Now I…

"I think of all the CD's I bought in the past which turned out to be garbage apart from the two singles released which are the reason for buying the CD."

I always wonder why do people buy that stuff.

I mean, you can figure out whether a band or artist is serious at what they do. It's your duty as a music fan.

So it is you who buys the suboptimal product, it is you who sponsors one trick ponies and rip offs, who gives them competitive advantage against the deep, real musicians.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#48

Post by guard-of-terra » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 6:04 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #38

tsotha wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point of laws is not to cut crime. The point of a law is reduce socially damaging behavior. What is the point of this law?

To reduce socially damaging behavior. It is anti-social to attempt to benefit from the work of others without compensating them.

Since when it is so?

I'm benefiting from the existence of the alphabet, Linux operating system or declaration of human rights without compensating their creators.

The best things, ones you really need, come for free.

The best things could not exist if they weren't, and we'd still be in the stone age with your mindset.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#49

Post by waterlesscloud » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 6:15 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #48

waterlesscloud wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reduce socially damaging behavior. It is anti-social to attempt to benefit from the work of others without compensating them.

Since when it is so? I'm benefiting from the existence of the alphabet, Linux operating system or declaration of human rights without compensating their creators. The best things, ones you really need, come for free. The best things could not exist if they weren't, and we'd still be in the stone age with your mindset.

Linux wouldn't exist without a lot of compensated work that came before it.

But seriously, these are different categories of things we're discussing here, and that has to be be abundantly clear to everyone.

Re: French ‘Three Strikes’ Law Slashes Piracy, But Fails to Boost Sales

#50

Post by J3L2404 » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 6:21 PM UTC

Androsynth wrote: post #44

J3L2404 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People are valuing your product as zero. Where they don't, they buy. No. The popular content is downloaded more. You can jump thru hoops and do backflips but the fact is people don't want to pay. Period. Everything else is justification.

Convenience. If you think that's not a relevant reason you're just being pig-headed. I pay for netflix and Amazon Prime. In fact I would pay 2-3x more for netflix if they had everything. (Not even new stuff, but old stuff) I don't buy dvd's because the value is not there for me. If I am just going to watch something once or twice, its worth ~$1 to me, not $20 like a new dvd. I don't go down to blockbuster/Red Box bec…

Well I won't be pigheaded. I too would pay triple for everything to be on Netflix and don't buy DVDs. If you can buy it but choose to get it free that's your call, it's when you can't buy it anywhere that copyright really fails.