Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#41

Post by frostiness » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #36

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I don't know if this would work. Right now, Winnie the Pooh has gone public domain, and if you've seen the reaction to "Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey" or a new video game called "Winnie's Hole"... most people really, really do not like that Winnie the Pooh is being expanded in the horror direction. Some are even calling for copyright to be eternal because the public is showing that it cannot handle public domain r…

Is that really the fault of the public domain or a reaction to the fact that Winnie the Pooh was copyrighted for so long? The appeal of horror Winnie the Pooh in almost every single instance has been due to the novelty that it's even possible to do legally, and somewhat as an act of rebellion against the company arguably responsible for holding it hostage for so long.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#42

Post by derstander » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #34

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

Hmm. I don't think I agree with the philosophy of it, even if the outcome is good for consumers. For one, just because something is not available for purchase does not mean that the creator is not deprived of the would-be revenue. An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Secondly, that puts an unfair burden on creator…

> but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable.

A side effect of this would be to encourage the creator or company to continue making it available.

> Secondly, that puts an unfair burden on creators. If I do a run of of my book, and it sells out, I don't think it becomes open season on duplicating it digitally, and I shouldn't have to always carry excess inventory just in case it's a hit.

That’s why I explicitly included a short time period to account for such hiccups. And, for example, if you’re talking about books then print on demand is certainly a way to satisfy the for sale criteria.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#43

Post by adra » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #34

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

Hmm. I don't think I agree with the philosophy of it, even if the outcome is good for consumers. For one, just because something is not available for purchase does not mean that the creator is not deprived of the would-be revenue. An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Secondly, that puts an unfair burden on creator…

I think vaulting was relevant in the 90s-00s when physical movie sale revenues were relevant, but the business model of movies has changed... a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if all their back catalog are on Disney+ now or released slowly in a few years whenever new content production hits droughts.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#44

Post by _chu1 » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #31

raytopia wrote: post #22

This is sad. I really wish consoles were more open platforms than they are today so people didn't have to jailbreak their devices to run stuff like pretendo and install homebrew. Also imagine how cool a replacement E-Shop would be. Someone really needs to work on creating a open console or even one with a form factor similar to the 3DS/DS. I mean imagine how cool a analogue pocket DS would be or maybe even a fantasy…

Meh. People knew when they bought in that the platforms were closed. If they wanted "open platforms" they should've bought PC games.

PC does not offer the same experiences Nintendo has. Animal Crossing New Leaf was only on 3DS and is one of my favorite games ever. It's depressing kids growing up after me won't be able to experience what I did as easily, I used to do local and online multiplayer all the time, I had almost every fruit in the game. Still play it now after getting another N3DSXL last Christmas after my old one was stolen.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#45

Post by smoldesu » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

innocenat wrote: post #39

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I am not sure how that would work. "Artificial Intelligence a Modern Approach" 1st Edition is no longer available. Should it be allowed to be freely shared when 4th edition is still on sale? The changes aren't that minor, either.

> Should it be allowed to be freely shared when 4th edition is still on sale?

I think so, even though the context around it might be more confusing/less modern or relevant.

For books and research, you can argue a lot of trivialities. For games and art, I think it's a necessary preservation requirement. For example, the other day I wanted to play Armored Core 4/4A. Digital copies can't be bought now that the servers are dead, and secondhand physical copies run well over $400. Your only convenient option for experiencing AC4/4A is emulation or piracy, which is absurd (but also the inconvenient truth).

Unless we'd rather these old and seemingly irrelevant works fall off the face of the earth, legalizing their preservation and archival should be urgent.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#46

Post by gjsman-1000 » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

frostiness wrote: post #41

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this would work. Right now, Winnie the Pooh has gone public domain, and if you've seen the reaction to "Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey" or a new video game called "Winnie's Hole"... most people really, really do not like that Winnie the Pooh is being expanded in the horror direction. Some are even calling for copyright to be eternal because the public is showing that it cannot handle public domain r…

Is that really the fault of the public domain or a reaction to the fact that Winnie the Pooh was copyrighted for so long? The appeal of horror Winnie the Pooh in almost every single instance has been due to the novelty that it's even possible to do legally, and somewhat as an act of rebellion against the company arguably responsible for holding it hostage for so long.

I don't think so. The appeal is in spoiling childhood innocence and not getting sued for it. Case in point: Peppa the Pig had problems with exploitative knockoff videos being uploaded for years, that were deliberately designed to be offensive and shocking.

If Mario went public domain tomorrow, I absolutely guarantee you that 90% of what goes online or gets made will be content intended to shock, traumatize, or offend. And that, for better or worse, can and will make people increasingly skeptical about the merits of public domain and copyright expiration.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#47

Post by makapuf » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #36

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I don't know if this would work. Right now, Winnie the Pooh has gone public domain, and if you've seen the reaction to "Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey" or a new video game called "Winnie's Hole"... most people really, really do not like that Winnie the Pooh is being expanded in the horror direction. Some are even calling for copyright to be eternal because the public is showing that it cannot handle public domain r…

Uh ... I don't like what Disney made of Cinderella, pinocchio or pocahontas. Commercial reuse handle copyright miserably.

Anyway, people having fun with Winnie ? Who will care in 2 years? Do you often see shock content of cinderella ? Or xxx content of beauty and the beast?

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#48

Post by derstander » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

innocenat wrote: post #39

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I am not sure how that would work. "Artificial Intelligence a Modern Approach" 1st Edition is no longer available. Should it be allowed to be freely shared when 4th edition is still on sale? The changes aren't that minor, either.

If the changes aren’t that minor, then people would certainly gain extra value from buying the 4th edition instead of freely getting the 1st.

If the changes were minor, then maybe it would stop, say, a textbook company from releasing a zillion versions of the same book with minor changes or the question ordering switched in order to extract money out of the next class of students instead of simply allowing them to buy the previous edition used. ;)

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#49

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

12907835202 wrote: post #30

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

But the value of something is often its scarcity... The owner of Once Upon a Time in Shaolin by Wu Tang would be pretty mad if it was freely shared because it couldn't be bought or rented. Context from Wikipedia for those who don't know it: "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin is the seventh studio album by the American hip hop group Wu-Tang Clan. Only one physical copy of the album was created, with no ability to download o…

By what meaning of value?

The speculative gains such a person hopes to receive aren't a good measure of value.

If something increases pleasure via entertainment, this is objectively quantifiable. Every pair of ears that hears it increases its value. Preventing it from being heard drives that value down near zero (to 1, presumably). Even if we posit that each person who would listen would be willing to pay a different amount for that privilege, then the person who is hoarding it is driving that price down below whatever paltry price the million listeners might each pay individually.

I see no reason why copyright policy should be driven by the needs of lame publicity stunts.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#50

Post by bluSCALE4 » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

They should have a window for companies to liquidate their inventory and then release a patch to remove any modding restriction. Nintendo has done the opposite.