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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#41

Post by eropple »

bluGill wrote: post #31
jimbob45 wrote: post #3

Many went without masks. Some had water spurting from their machines, but others had nothing to tamp down the powder rising in the air. Does OSHA not require masks in these cases?

Have you ever wore a respirator? Not a mask (which all already uncomfortable to wear all day), but the full respirator which is what is needed for this dust. I've done it for an hour when working with chemicals (different filter from dust, but otherwise the same) and I was glad to get it off.it is hard to blame someone for not wanting to wear them all day. They still should. If you need to wear a respirator all day i…

I have a wood shop, I wear a respirator constantly unless I've got the doors open and the fans on and I'm not going to be doing more than a one-off cut that afternoon. A properly fitted 3M 6800-series full-face respirator is pretty comfortable even for long periods and while wearing glasses. A 6200-series half-mask is even more comfortable, though a little awkward with glasses.

The only problem is that a 6800-series costs $200, plus probably $30 a month in P100 cartridges given the level of particulates in the air, and that's more than these companies think their workers' lives are worth.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#42

Post by Kirby64 »

This seems largely similar to worker protections for welding... the proper protection is essentially heavy shop ventilation and full respirators (which, good ones cost something like $1500).

I suspect the problem is that welding related disease/problems show up quite quickly in most cases, and welding tends to be a higher paid industry. More room for margin on PPE and workers have higher demands.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#43

Post by usrnm »

whimsicalism wrote: post #28
thadk wrote: post #8

According to this podcast, Cass Sunstein, co-author of Nudge, used his economist-oriented federal government department to delay and block legislated regulation related to protection for silicosis during the Obama administration. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/if-books-could-kill/id...

Jeez - Sunstein has such great work in legal scholarship, but I guess power corrupts? Even more surprising to me was Sunstein and his wife Samantha Power attending Henry Kissinger's birthday party after Power previously published a book basically pinning 150,000 deaths in Cambodia directly on him. They knew this guy is basically a war criminal and still went to celebrate his birthday.

The US has no war criminals, because no court in the world would dare to prosecute Americans for war crimes, the ICC tried once, didn't end well for them. So relax, Kissinger is one of the good guys.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#44

Post by mrweasel »

b112 wrote: post #11
victorbstan wrote: post #4

A lot of workers don’t wear protective gear. By choice. Nobody to blame but themselves.

The company is to blame. It's law to wear protective gear in many legal jurisdictions, and that 100% means the company is liable, if it does not actively enforce, and create a "culture of safety".

The point remain here: The workers are the ones choosing to not use the safety gear, in some cases.

I was the safety representative at a previous job. Management care a lot about safety and provided everything required, and high quality gear as well. Still people would cut corners and not use the equipment because it was faster not to. These where people paid by the hour, they have zero incentive to work faster. If people work on contact however, it's easy to create an environment where speed is priorities over safety.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#45

Post by bushbaba »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

America offers Medicare so we still bear the cost. Just only if they live long enough to receive the retirement benefits.

Yeah one heck of a perverse incentive.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#46

Post by galangalalgol »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Incidentally this is also why everyone working in a nation has to receive these benefits (and any others guaranteed to citizens), otherwise you get migrant workers who suck up this, quite literally in this case, but don't receive healthcare.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#47

Post by daniel-cussen »

pixl97 wrote: post #7
dmbche wrote: post #2

"Nearly half of the workers suffering silicosis in the UCLA and UCSF study said their workplaces were using water to control dust. Roughly a quarter said they always had respiratory protection. Fazio said studies have found that in many shops, dust is so thick in the air that respirators cannot filter out a sufficient amount. Metzger argued that the kind of sophisticated and costly measures that would be needed to re…

>dust is so thick in the air that respirators cannot filter out a sufficient amount This is not a technology problem, this is an 1880s "Safety devices are too expensive problem" along with paid under the table workers problem. All kinds of other industries manufacture 'dangerous' products with regulations that protect the workers. Housing and agriculture are both industries that do not and fight ever further for anti…

[dead]

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#48

Post by eropple »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #32
fzeroracer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, protective gear (actually protective gear, not thin dust masks) is expensive. The workers cant afford it, and the businesses want to save the money. There's some small margin of workers who have access to protective gear but don't wear it, but in reality for most workers it's the job of the company to provide it and train workers to use it.

Your employer should provide you with all the tools you need to do your job safely. Weirdly enough, that doesn't apply to car mechanics which seem to be dead set on bringing their own tools to work.

Car mechanics have a few cultural things that lead to everyone buying a preposterously expensive box of their own stuff. First is theft (stuff walks away a lot) and second is flat-rate differentiation. Having the right tools can make a flat-rated job take much less time and thus incentivizes the mechanic to have their own tools, and still would even if the garage provided them.

Not saying it's good or right, but there are incentives that push towards it.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#49

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

> Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's taxes, are higher.

The taxes part is the same; only the healthcare half is different.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#50

Post by ffgjgf1 »

hackernewds wrote: post #13
dmbche wrote: post #2

"Nearly half of the workers suffering silicosis in the UCLA and UCSF study said their workplaces were using water to control dust. Roughly a quarter said they always had respiratory protection. Fazio said studies have found that in many shops, dust is so thick in the air that respirators cannot filter out a sufficient amount. Metzger argued that the kind of sophisticated and costly measures that would be needed to re…

Vote with your wallet is the most effective method. Look at plastic straws today. What kind of countertops should be avoided? Would have been nice if the article suggested some solutions as well

Why wouldn’t everyone pick plastic straws instead of paper ones coated with PFAS if given the choice?
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