Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

community.atlassian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 97 posts

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#41

Post by [deleted] »

MilStdJunkie wrote: post #11
hospitalJail wrote: post #4

I am the ultimate smart tech man at my company. Warned them about Jira. Warned them about M$/Sharepoint/Power Automate. Jira and New M$ services are at bait pricing. They will all be extortionary levels at some point. Kind of amazes me people are paying for inferior closed off services, but I imagine the people making the purchasing decisions are more concerned about which concert or sports game the sales person is t…

This is more or less my life as well. The "finisher argument" that gets rolled out is "product lifetime costs". It goes like this. Open Source Product A will always be your responsibility, which will take X hours off the team's time forever. Vendor Product B will be maintained from the vendor side, thus removing that wildcard of X. Ergo, over the "lifetime" of the product, B will have lower costs than A. Since this a…

[deleted]

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#42

Post by Tade0 »

resharpe105 wrote: post #28

Meanwhile, a company I used to work at keeps on using self hosted MantisBT. Its maintenance takes like 2 engineer days per year total, if that. Its initial setup with all the plugins ( of note are those for project management and release tracking) and integrations (e.g. git) took one engineer week if I remember correctly. And it works just fine for 7 years now, to the point that the only advantage of Jira I see is a…

Mantis! Last time I used that system was in 2012 - also self-hosted by the company.

My impression of JIRA was always that it felt slow - at least compared to our Mantis instance. Mantis might not have such a ridiculous range of customizations, but does a small to mid-sized business ever use most of them?

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#43

Post by piva00 »

Aurornis wrote: post #33
xvilka wrote: post #12

GitHub and GitLab workflows are much more convenient in my opinion. They were made with actual workers in mind: developers, QA, release managers, DevOps, etc. Jira, on the other hand, is purely manager's toy with all it's useless features that often stand in a way of daily routine. I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira.

> I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira. We did a clean Jira setup from scratch as set up by developers for developers. It was fine. It wasn’t until the company hired full time TPMs who made it unnecessarily complicated with an endless list of plugins and processes that it got to be miserable. The real killer was the way they wanted us to use it: They declared that only TPMs could move tickets, and only…

Jira's UX is quite bad though, even when there's not much red tape from management on how to manage your tickets.

The response time for a "Create ticket" flow gets in the way, I like how snappy Trello feels, I can create a ticket in seconds with just shortcuts and a few keystrokes so it's pretty effortless to split a task in multiple tickets to be worked on. The clickety-clicky nature of Jira gets in the way for that, I need to click "Create", then select the "Project", then click on the modal's text box for writing the description, it doesn't support Markdown so I need to keep in mind (increasing the cognitive load) how Jira's formatting work. Then I need to click "Create" while checking the box "Create another" so I can keep the flow of adding more tickets.

Over time this workflow is fucking terrible, sometimes I avoid splitting some larger task into multiple tickets because I can't be bothered to go through this flow yet-again.

If Jira just simplified the way to create tickets, throwing them into an "Inbox" to be sorted later it'd improve the experience a lot, the way it's designed doesn't help to be fast with it and breaks my train of thought.

My workflow right now is to open a text editor, write down all the tickets I want to create, their descriptions, etc. and later I just copy-paste into Jira's UI when I have the energy to go through the whole song and dance of creating tickets.

It's death by a thousand cuts, the ergonomics of it is pretty bad.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#44

Post by makeitdouble »

MilStdJunkie wrote: post #11
hospitalJail wrote: post #4

I am the ultimate smart tech man at my company. Warned them about Jira. Warned them about M$/Sharepoint/Power Automate. Jira and New M$ services are at bait pricing. They will all be extortionary levels at some point. Kind of amazes me people are paying for inferior closed off services, but I imagine the people making the purchasing decisions are more concerned about which concert or sports game the sales person is t…

This is more or less my life as well. The "finisher argument" that gets rolled out is "product lifetime costs". It goes like this. Open Source Product A will always be your responsibility, which will take X hours off the team's time forever. Vendor Product B will be maintained from the vendor side, thus removing that wildcard of X. Ergo, over the "lifetime" of the product, B will have lower costs than A. Since this a…

I actually agree with the "lifetime" argument. The real fallacy is here:

> Vendor Product B will be maintained from the vendor side, thus removing that wildcard of X.

Product B also has a lifetime cost as you'll be paying monthly for the subscription.

Also no product is maintenance free, even as you pay for it. Products evolve, you also do, next months JIRA could break some of a company's use cases and they'll have to deal with it. The vendor might be helpful and guide thsm through the process, but that's still work.

A good example of that is Microsoft's enterprise offering: it's a paid product and you still need a department to manage it day to day.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#46

Post by RamblingCTO »

unixhero wrote: post #30
RamblingCTO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree less. It costs a fucking ton and does not enable us to find information well, document stuff properly, and don't get me started on the fucking opaque permission management.

Someone else is paying (megacorp) Search is great

The search is great? I have to disagree on that as well.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#47

Post by regularfry »

criley2 wrote: post #20
asoneth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience at mid-sized companies the decision is usually made by the development teams themselves who have a choice along a spectrum between a proprietary SAAS solution that may end up costing the company unpredictable amounts of money in the future on one end and a self-hosted open source solution that we have to trust the IT/devops folks to maintain competently on the other. Also in my experience, the compan…

The cold hard math that engineers never want to do is the one involving their own salary. On levels.fyi devops is median $150k in the US, and at that price it means they cost the company a lot more including benefits, taxes, etc. If a "crappy" tool costs $10k/mo for the team and doesn't require much or any devops time to setup and maintain, it's likely cheaper than the $0/mo opensource but requires part or full time…

The same argument applies to the users of the software though, and seeing that played out is even more rare.

If I can run a $0 tool that saves 100 people half an hour a month each because the workflow is better, that's $4k in the "pro" column right there. I should be able to justify spending a day a week on just that one product.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#48

Post by RamblingCTO »

eviks wrote: post #37
RamblingCTO wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Jira and everything else by Atlassian has and will always be garbage, it looks way better than Redmine at least.

sourcetree?

That's the notable exception. I use that thing daily. I don't think it gets much love, but still good piece of software.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#49

Post by regularfry »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #13

We're using azure dev ops and recently started leveraging their Pm tool for our requirements management. So far, I've been impressed. It took a little time to figure out how to operate within their paradigm. Once we tackled that, I don't see is going to another solution. For better or worse, 365 is a pretty decent suite. Integration across their stack is a little schizo at times but it works well enough. The only Ach…

Some people in my org like to say "MS Planner is the kanban tool of choice" and... just... no. That's the big problem when you have an IT org that wants to buy heavily into the 365 ecosystem, you end up having to fight off utterly boneheaded migration projects.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#50

Post by davinci123 »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #34

Lots of discussion here of whether Jira is any good or not. Almost none about the actual contents of the article. None at all about how the changes are bad for all but enterprise customers. It's not obvious to me - and it would be nice to have an explanation.

I think this is the section: "In today’s model, an automation rule that is configured to run in a single Jira project does not count toward the usage limit. In the new model, all automation rule types (i.e. single project, project type, multi-project, and global rules) will count towards the usage limit."
Post reply on HN