Why only documents? How about a SQLitefs?
WinFS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS) without the mssql Engine?
What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
41–50 of 310 posts
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#42Coupling a file format to SQLite smells wrong. SQLite is good, but it is also fairly unique in this space. Why? Because it’s hard to replicate everything it does, because it does a lot. But… for this case, do we need it do a lot? No, not really. We don’t need the full SQL standard, a query optimiser, etc etc for basic (+ safe) transaction semantics and the ability to store data in a basic table structure. Perhaps the…
- Why not? https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.html - Its size is less than a megabyte: https://sqlite.org/footprint.html - 750KB if all features are enabled: https://www.sqlite.org/about.html - Looks like fair amount of functionality can be left out when compiling sqlite and with options to influence/strip down query planner: https://www.sqlite.org/compile.html - And "SQLite does not compete with client/server data…
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Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
- Why not? https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.html - Its size is less than a megabyte: https://sqlite.org/footprint.html - 750KB if all features are enabled: https://www.sqlite.org/about.html - Looks like fair amount of functionality can be left out when compiling sqlite and with options to influence/strip down query planner: https://www.sqlite.org/compile.html - And "SQLite does not compete with client/server data…
The complaint is not “it isn’t good” but rather “it is not replaceable”. Since SQLite is so powerful, once you specify it as a format, you are stuck with SQLite forever.
Which is also "not a big issue", since it's a recommended Library of Congress storage format, and supported long term:
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#44Why only documents? How about a SQLitefs?
WinFS ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS ) without the mssql Engine?
Or this: https://github.com/narumatt/sqlitefs
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#45Coupling a file format to SQLite smells wrong. SQLite is good, but it is also fairly unique in this space. Why? Because it’s hard to replicate everything it does, because it does a lot. But… for this case, do we need it do a lot? No, not really. We don’t need the full SQL standard, a query optimiser, etc etc for basic (+ safe) transaction semantics and the ability to store data in a basic table structure. Perhaps the…
- Why not? https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.html - Its size is less than a megabyte: https://sqlite.org/footprint.html - 750KB if all features are enabled: https://www.sqlite.org/about.html - Looks like fair amount of functionality can be left out when compiling sqlite and with options to influence/strip down query planner: https://www.sqlite.org/compile.html - And "SQLite does not compete with client/server data…
> In the end, you don't need a database, but a library that gives you database API and behavior.
Why do you need a single library that gives you a database API and behaviour?
Wouldn't it be better to decouple those: provide an open, standard format that enables compact, fast, structured storage that is built to allow transaction/atomic updates.
If that exists then you can plug sqlite on top of that, or something else. Because you don't _need_ any of SQL, or really sqlite to improve the OpenDocument format. You need the storage format.
OpenDocument is very different from the pretty scientific/niche/highly-vendor-locked examples given in replies by others here. Locking this into a format developed by essentially a single person with a single implementation is absolutely mad.
But... it's less mad if the file format wasn't coupled to sqlite.
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#46Love the vibe of artivles, which present let's say reason-driven development vs habit-driven.
Why habit? Well, I can imagine back at the time OpenOffice was a fresh project, it went like this: "XML is going to stay forever and everybody uses XML, so ofc we use one... oh, it is so big! And there are many files, so we just zip'em"...
To be fair, the author of this excellent article doesn't even say about getting rid of XML in this format- but that could also be achieved by storing stuff in a SQLite file. Usage of XML was habitual thinking there- and not very visionary, as the format is dead now...
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
The complaint is not “it isn’t good” but rather “it is not replaceable”. Since SQLite is so powerful, once you specify it as a format, you are stuck with SQLite forever.
Which is also "not a big issue", since it's a recommended Library of Congress storage format, and supported long term: https://www.sqlite.org/locrsf.html https://www.sqlite.org/lts.html
Which is why I was clarifying the original complaint and not supporting the original complaint.
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#48Coupling a file format to SQLite smells wrong. SQLite is good, but it is also fairly unique in this space. Why? Because it’s hard to replicate everything it does, because it does a lot. But… for this case, do we need it do a lot? No, not really. We don’t need the full SQL standard, a query optimiser, etc etc for basic (+ safe) transaction semantics and the ability to store data in a basic table structure. Perhaps the…
Have you checked the Apple apps? Most of them use SQLite as storage format. iMovie, iPhoto, Voice recording… Same with Docker. Can’t be that wrong?
The Apple apps are using Core Data, which uses SQLite as its persistent store by default. So Apple could in theory migrate away from SQLite by changing Core Data’s behaviour without any application-level impact. So in a way, these applications are already decoupled from SQLite in the way the parent comment suggests.
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#49I don't want people to read my drafts. That could be highly embarassing, and they should not make it into the final saved document.
Past version and undo history should be stored separately from the document. They should be stored out of tree where they wont be commited into some git repository or be automatically synced or anything like that.
Re: What if OpenDocument used SQLite? (2014)
#50Man do I love SQLite.
Over the past 1.5 yrs I've build a computer vision tool from recording hardware/software, to derp learning pipelines, to front-end; we had some requirements on the recording side that were difficult to solve with existing solutions (storing exactly timestamped camera frames, gps data, car telemetry and other metadata).
Using a SQLite-backed data format for the video recordings made implementing things by ourselves super straightforward.