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Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

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Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#41

Post by mwbajor »

hcayless wrote: post #39
netbioserror wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s quite hard to understand the opposition to them without hypothesizing that it’s simply racism. We have two criteria here: Hire on merit and try pick the best person for the job; or, subsume merit to picking based primarily on skin color and/or ethnicity. One man's "hire people besides white men" is another's "hire using racist criteria and violate every hard-fought and hard-won civil, moral, and ethical princip…

Binaries are cool and all, but maybe it's better for your organizational health to have (for example) your company look something like the population they're selling to? Maybe not everyone gets the same level of boost in their education? Maybe they've overcome some adversity and that will make them a better, more resilient colleague, but it also meant their grades weren't as high? Like I said, this isn't easy stuff,…

" look something like the population they're selling to"

Would the car have been any less useful to african people if it was invented by a black henry ford?

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#42

Post by verall »

mwbajor wrote: post #41
hcayless wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binaries are cool and all, but maybe it's better for your organizational health to have (for example) your company look something like the population they're selling to? Maybe not everyone gets the same level of boost in their education? Maybe they've overcome some adversity and that will make them a better, more resilient colleague, but it also meant their grades weren't as high? Like I said, this isn't easy stuff,…

" look something like the population they're selling to" Would the car have been any less useful to african people if it was invented by a black henry ford?

I have to wonder if this comment is made in good faith -

Are cars and other goods tailored to the needs of local markets?

Are they adjustable for different people's shapes and sizes?

How long was it before car chairs were adjustable to be driven by women, and how much longer until regulators started considering women-sized crash dummies?

Sure, your skin color doesn't mean much to a car, but it does to an automatic faucet, a skin-toned band aid, face login (or whatever apple calls it). There are obvious benefits to hiring or doing studies within your target market.

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#43

Post by keiferski »

I’m not up on my New Spain history, but it was always my impression that imperial Spain was an extractive economy that grew wealthy by acquiring and selling resources, not from technological or cultural innovation.

That seems entirely different from American (US) history to me, which while also host to a ton of resources, utilized them for productive ends. A whole lot of technological and political innovation happened in the US, especially by the mid-late 1800s. I don’t think there was a similar phenomenon in the Spanish empire?

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#44

Post by mwbajor »

verall wrote: post #42
mwbajor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" look something like the population they're selling to" Would the car have been any less useful to african people if it was invented by a black henry ford?

I have to wonder if this comment is made in good faith - Are cars and other goods tailored to the needs of local markets? Are they adjustable for different people's shapes and sizes? How long was it before car chairs were adjustable to be driven by women, and how much longer until regulators started considering women-sized crash dummies? Sure, your skin color doesn't mean much to a car, but it does to an automatic fa…

Answer the question, would the car be different if Henry Ford was black? Would the AC induction motor be different if Tesla was Hispanic? Would the transistor be different if Shockley was Asian? Shall I go on? Believe it or not, it doesn't just apply to White people. The most important products don't care about what you look like.

"Are cars and other goods tailored to the needs of local markets?"

I would argue they always were. The color of a band-aide does not change its main functionality. Neither do any of your other examples. Humans all need a car with 4 wheels and band-aides that stick.

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#45

Post by mc32 »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #28
mc32 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a parallel in beasts of burden. Do some smallholders use them? Yes. Are they economical? No. Mechanization undercut the value proposition of slave labor and beasts of burden due to the costs of upkeep and their nature of needing rest and recuperation. With slaves you also had to have a an infrastructure to keep them from escaping -also true for animals but keeping animals corralled is cheap.

Keeping slaves from escaping is simple: fear. You could be whipped or killed, you were unwelcome anywhere in society, and there were laws enforcing their capture and return. No infrastructure needed. Slavery was wildly economically feasible, still is. All you need to do is add pressure to the workers and their performance increases. Like Amazon warehouse workers, but, you know, with whippings.

Fear wasn't the only tool --in China (the Qing Dynasty for example) it was socially ingrained that some people were destined to be slaves, this is probably the more successful approach, open to fewer questions or rebellions except when the lords overplay their hands and become cruel.

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#46

Post by mwbajor »

yardie wrote: post #25
roody15 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ People care about the US Dollar because of the backing of the United States and its economy. ” This may be changing. The US may have overextended its “credit line” if you will.

The libertarians keep saying this. Yet the US continues to sell bonds to international investors who never question if the credit line is overextended. They continue to use the economic model they learned in high school economics class to a more complex economic model that is designed by and for a hegemony. The US has an almost unlimited credit line because investors are clamoring for it. It's literally the best, mos…

Could this not change in an instant though?

"The US has an almost unlimited credit line because investors are clamoring for it. It's literally the best, most stable investment going right now. "

Its hubris like this that worries people, not partisanship.

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#47

Post by medo-bear »

nemo44x wrote: post #15
krona wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People care about the US Dollar because of the backing of the United States and its military Corrected that for you.

The backing implies the military. A strong military is necessary for any independent, thriving state. The USA economy is the most dynamic and powerful in the world by a large margin. People want their wealth backed by this and will pay a premium for the right.

who this people ?

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#48

Post by rmbyrro »

hcayless wrote: post #32

It’s astonishing to me how obviously intelligent people can just be put into the mental equivalent of an unrecoverable flat spin by ideology. The essay is interesting, but then just flips into silly mode. DEI is not the Spanish Inquisition. The idea that we should try to hire, retain, and promote people besides white men seems straightforwardly good to me. Obviously it’s hard to execute on, particularly without makin…

> particularly without making some people uncomfortable

I guess because racism is a crime in most modern societies and living in prison is uncomfortable?

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#49

Post by hcayless »

mwbajor wrote: post #41
hcayless wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binaries are cool and all, but maybe it's better for your organizational health to have (for example) your company look something like the population they're selling to? Maybe not everyone gets the same level of boost in their education? Maybe they've overcome some adversity and that will make them a better, more resilient colleague, but it also meant their grades weren't as high? Like I said, this isn't easy stuff,…

" look something like the population they're selling to" Would the car have been any less useful to african people if it was invented by a black henry ford?

Of course not. What does that have to do with anything? People with different lives and experiences will have different perspectives that are likely to be helpful. We all care deeply about the things that directly affect us and our loved ones and less about the things that do not. You can cover more bases with a diverse workforce and avoid making dumb mistakes. I don’t get why this is controversial.

Re: Spain’s Lessons for American Decline

#50

Post by P_I_Staker »

roody15 wrote: post #6
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

> But the most revealing parallels relate to a different expansionary dynamic—that of money. The key to so much else that happened to both countries was the appearance of what seemed like unlimited wealth but was actually access to unlimited quantities of a universal medium of exchange, craved and accepted everywhere. If you can’t tell the difference between stealing a bunch of gold in a gold based economy and the US…

“ People care about the US Dollar because of the backing of the United States and its economy. ” This may be changing. The US may have overextended its “credit line” if you will.

AFAIK our debt utilization still much less than most of our peers. If you compare to whatever metric (GDP?), we're in great shape.
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