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Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

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Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#41

Post by mobilejdral »

deaddodo wrote: post #15
mobilejdral wrote: post #7

I have seen the joke more than a few times about how women would also love to have a wife to take care of the home and everything mentioned in the article, but unfortunately they are straight and so they would have to be the wife. I went on a date with a guy who told me he is looking for a housewife with everything that you would expect and actually lean more into the 1950's version. Later in the date he let out that…

I had the opposite problem, my ex wanted to be taken care of and not have to work (traditional housespouse); but they expected me to do half of the housework (or more, in the case of the dogs they wanted). I would work 8-10hrs a day, then spend another 1.5ish walking dogs and .5-1ish doing house chores. After I was done, I would have to listen to them complain about how exhausted they were mopping the floors. When I…

I just have to ask, did you expect your ex to work 24/7 for you? When did the job of being the traditional housespouse get off? 6pm? 8pm? never? When were they simply allowed to be your partner and get to stop taking care of you? Having to walk your dog (it is your dog no matter whom wanted it) and sounds like helping to clean up dinner sure sounds like a really hard life.

After you divorced did you hire a maid, etc? How is it going looking for a future spouse when you tell them you want to never do any house work at all?

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#42

Post by mrkeen »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #9
mrkeen wrote: post #2

> Housewifing bears a different kind of opportunity cost than breadwinning Yes. The opportunity cost of housewifing is breadwinning. The opportunity cost of breadwinning is housewifing. Guess which one pays the rent/mortgage (keywords not found in the text.)

If both partners work then: - many more meals must be ordered in or eaten out instead of prepared from scratch - transportation cost increases, more vehicles needed which means more gas more insurance more repairs or more transit fare and now both people sacrifice possibly hours of their day to commuting - childcare services must be paid for and transportation arranged for them - the choice of housing now has the add…

Everyone's situation is different. I got 1 kid. I pay around $110/mo for childcare. No car. I pay around $100/mo for transport. I assume the kid's mum pays the same for transport. We're separated now, but she has a career because her CV isn't just housewifery.

I really can't get behind the money-saving arguments about food etc. (mostly in other comments even though my post is here.)

I mean, I buy meals during the day because I'm rich and lazy. Nothing's stopping me from storing leftover dinner in the fridge and taking it into work the next day.

But if I wanted unrealistic comparisons between food costs and employment, why not child care too: I save so much money and time by having my kid fed at daycare instead of having to feed him myself.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#43

Post by sanderjd »

This is much more interesting than I expected it to be from the headline, and I don't think it should be flagged. (I wonder if people flagged it on auto-pilot based on the headline.)

Since it's clear from the top-level comments that most people aren't reading this far: This article is using "housewife" to mean one member of a two-adult household focusing mostly on home-related work rather than typical money-earning work, and the article (eventually) takes pains to point out that this could be a man (though usually isn't).

Personally, I think she's right that having at least one person in a household not work full time for pay would be a much better setup if it actually worked the way I would want it to, especially (but not exclusively) in households with children. However, I don't see any path to it working the way I would want it to, and for most people I know, the way it would actually work is less desirable than the status quo.

Here's how I wish this could work:

- Both people work part time and share the "homemaking" responsibilities. This is covered in the article along with the reasons this doesn't work for most people in our current society. But this is what I'd like to do if we were financially independent.

- People take turns working at home or for pay. I would love to switch back and forth. I get tired of both kinds of work and it would be rejuvenating to do one for awhile and then the other. But again, this doesn't work for most people, because it's not what employers want (it is just a different version of part-time work after all).

- No gender-based stereotyping of who "should" be doing which kind of work. This one is possible to overcome on an individual basis by communicating really well about the expectations for both people involved and by conscientiously not caring what other people think. But still, enculturation is hard to overcome, and I know both sides of the "non-traditional" way of doing this often face different kinds of struggles with it.

But if those things aren't plausibly achievable in a widespread way, then I think the status quo where most people try to do both work for pay and work at home (and do kind of a bad job of both) is preferable to the "traditional" setup of having strictly a woman do all the work at home indefinitely. Very few of the women I know would thrive with that lifestyle, and few of the men I know would actually prefer their partner live that lifestyle.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#44

Post by darth_avocado »

gustavus wrote: post #38
darth_avocado wrote: post #11

I would absolutely give up my career to be a househusband, but increasingly, one income isn’t sufficient to support a family. I work in tech and even my salary (or my wife’s) cannot support the two of us + children. Yes we’d save some childcare costs, but that’s about it. If anything, your other expenses on an average remain the same but your standard of living drops because there’s less income.

Where are you living that it is that hard? I am the sole breadwinner for our family, have been our whole marriage, and we have 4 little kids and live a fairly comfortable middle class lifestyle. Although if food keeps going this way we may need to cut back on some things.

Pretty much anywhere. I know individual data points can be tricky to argue, but I was talking about an average person. BLS data supports the thesis on how going from 2 earners to 1 can significantly reduce the net household income, but the expenses don’t go down significantly.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2020/article/comparing-characte...

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#45

Post by deaddodo »

mobilejdral wrote: post #41
deaddodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the opposite problem, my ex wanted to be taken care of and not have to work (traditional housespouse); but they expected me to do half of the housework (or more, in the case of the dogs they wanted). I would work 8-10hrs a day, then spend another 1.5ish walking dogs and .5-1ish doing house chores. After I was done, I would have to listen to them complain about how exhausted they were mopping the floors. When I…

I just have to ask, did you expect your ex to work 24/7 for you? When did the job of being the traditional housespouse get off? 6pm? 8pm? never? When were they simply allowed to be your partner and get to stop taking care of you? Having to walk your dog (it is your dog no matter whom wanted it) and sounds like helping to clean up dinner sure sounds like a really hard life. After you divorced did you hire a maid, etc?…

I didn't expect anything from them. Way to perfectly encapsulate the entitled gaslighter/perpetual victim. Glad to know that, in your mind, it's perfectly valid for someone to contribute nothing and expect a free ride.

They just decided they wanted to be a traditional housespouse. I certainly would have liked them to contribute something to the household, like walking the dog that they went and got of their own accord half of the time or to contribute something in their stead of contributing to household expenses. Mostly since I was spending the majority of my hard earned money on them sitting on their ass watching TV or going to museums and cafes with friends. And the majority of my time supporting their lifestyle.

I didn't ask them to be in that role, they were perfectly welcome to get a job and we could share an equal amount in all household chores. And in fact, that was the ultimatum that ended our relationship, leading into a different one of equal shares of contribution and a shared happiness (both employed, equal split of household chores).

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#47

Post by mrkeen »

gustavus wrote: post #12

Does this surprise anyone this has been the way households have been structured for millennia, even among the elite aristocrats of ancient Rome, or Egyptian dynastys there would always the woman was primarily responsible for the running of the home, which despite what it sounds like could be quite a daunting affair, similar on the level of running a small business. I couldn't do what I do without my wife, she is just…

> Does this surprise anyone this has been the way households have been structured for millennia

It's a good point. Let's put it in the same box as slavery and arranged marriage.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#48

Post by jstarfish »

lusus_naturae wrote: post #4
smfugit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are splitting the cost though. Greater the time you spend on bread winning, and it always increases as work/fam responsibilities & fam size increase with time, less time you have on the home front. It makes a big diff(a real relief infact) if SO is full time manning that front.

This requires tremendous trust in the breadwinnner, though. Sexual competition is a reality, which is why infidelity happens. If the housewife/husband is deemed replaceable, then there is an implicit power differential between the breadwinner and house spouse, which opens the "lesser" half to abuse (physical, emotional, financial etc.). My recommendation to anyone considering house spousing is to have a contingency p…

> My recommendation to anyone considering house spousing is to have a contingency plan.

Relationships are about trust and vulnerability. If you're making fucking contingency plans, you're cheating at being in a relationship and don't belong in one.

My own advice would be that if you catch your spouse making contingency plans, see to it that their plan is executed as quickly and efficiently as possible. People that know they have a way out of trouble tend to do very nasty things before justifying their execution (same reason not to trust anyone of a citizenship you don't share). Get out of that relationship immediately while terms are good. The contingency will be executed by them under the worst of terms otherwise (expect to be provoked into violence or accused of spousal rape or worse, seemingly out of nowhere).

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#49

Post by sanderjd »

whinenot wrote: post #14
yummypaint wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would point out that for many people the cost of paying for childcare during work hours is comparable to the income generated from said work. Those people have essentially no incentive to work unless they want to avoid their kids.

Even if it's a wash dollar wise, staying employed often means you get healthcare and retirement benefits AND the career progression that ideally comes with long term stable employment. Trying to hop back on the treadmill after a 5-10 year absence often has a huge opportunity cost on your lifetime earnings.

Also, people don't need to be ashamed for often wanting to do their own adult things with other adults. It does not make you a bad parent to not want to spend all your time with your children. Balance is super important, and I think many homemakers find it lacking. Also, children like to be with other children, not just boring adults, and it's actually not that straightforward to achieve that with no daycare / preschool time for them during the week.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#50

Post by deaddodo »

evertruthy wrote: post #27
deaddodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the opposite problem, my ex wanted to be taken care of and not have to work (traditional housespouse); but they expected me to do half of the housework (or more, in the case of the dogs they wanted). I would work 8-10hrs a day, then spend another 1.5ish walking dogs and .5-1ish doing house chores. After I was done, I would have to listen to them complain about how exhausted they were mopping the floors. When I…

I pay for everything. I also do ~50% if the housework and childcare, as I’m mostly retired. Some people will think that’s unfair (my income is mostly sourced from investments, sure, but I’m still bringing the income). Some will think it’s fair as it’s about doing the work. Your situation, on the other hand, seems categorically unfair to you.

While it is slightly about the money, it's mostly about the inequity of work.

You say "doing the work"...well, the person with the job is doing 8hrs/day and 40hrs/wk to pay for everything. You should be willing to put in some sort of equity of work.

If the household chores somehow took anywhere near 40hours a week, sure the argument goes out the window; but the easy solution is go get a job, and then just split the chores down the middle. They don't have to pay for your lifestyle anymore, and there's no argument about being someone's servent. But I don't see what's weird about saying "I don't want to pay and work for someone who does nothing or nowhere near the equivalent".

You're retired, you're not doing "the work"...it makes sense that you also contribute.

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