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NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

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Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#41

Post by danpalmer »

skinkestek wrote: post #25
danpalmer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Biased, I work at Google), but I think there's a material difference between what Google does (as I understand it, from public info) – providing infrastructure services on Google Cloud, as all the major cloud providers do, or providing customer support for cloud workloads – and building defence related technology. To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offenc…

For what it is worth I would much rather work for parts of western defense industry than for Google. I'd be overjoyed to help create the tools to drive the invaders out of Ukraine for example, but not so much to try to finally kill the rest of the browser market or to serve shady ads. Yes, while I am not exaggerating I am probably a bit one sided here - I know there are parts of Google that I have nothing against lik…

Yeah we all have our own moral positions on these things. I wouldn't want to work for a hedge fund, but many people do. A friend of mine turned down a university project from a hedge fund, but went to work at a defence contractor after university. I personally disagree with your characterisation of Google, but again this is all based on opinion.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#42

Post by tomschlick »

cjbprime wrote: post #31
tomschlick wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who push back on technology used at the border make little sense to me. Using technology frees up other resources to process migrants more quickly through the abused asylum process. That means they are in detention for less time, they get court cases quicker, and get asylum or removal quicker.

Surely you can imagine some consistent viewpoints that a person could have here, such as "it can be a good thing when someone is able to escape a terrible situation in their current country even if they don't meet the rules for being granted asylum"?

I can see how people empathize with that but on the flip side I've known plenty of immigrants who went through the process the right way, waited months or years, gone through naturalization process and did the same to get get their families here.

They, along with others still in line feel cheated by the people entering illegally / abusing the asylum claim systems. If you're escaping a bad situation in a central or southern American country, and then pass through 4-5 countries to get here, you're not seeking asylum, you're an economic migrant no different from immigrants from India, China, etc all seeking a better life.

No other developed country would or should allow people to illegally enter and skip the legal process.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#43

Post by burkaman »

mightyham wrote: post #35
burkaman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any specific recent controversy, but the core concept of autonomous military equipment is extremely controversial. Bloomberg called them "Tech's Most Controversial Startup" a few years ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-10-03/tech-s-mo... Palmer Luckey and Peter Thiel themselves are also quite controversial political actors.

By controversial you mean that they are conservative. I'm not aware of anything they've done that is particularly controversial; furthermore, if the standard for controversial is that a person has donated money to political candidates and organizations that would make a huge portion of big tech figures controversial.

No that is not what I mean, I don't consider "being conservative" or donating money to any candidate to be controversial. For Palmer Luckey I'm referring to him personally holding a multi-million-dollar fundraiser for Donald Trump, and for Peter Thiel I'm referring to his opposition to democracy and women and poor people voting, among other things.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#44

Post by danpalmer »

olix0r wrote: post #13
danpalmer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Biased, I work at Google), but I think there's a material difference between what Google does (as I understand it, from public info) – providing infrastructure services on Google Cloud, as all the major cloud providers do, or providing customer support for cloud workloads – and building defence related technology. To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offenc…

> To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offence/defence. Actually there was a big uproar about exactly this several years ago https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/07/google-ai...

From reading that article it pretty much aligns with what I was saying. The US DoD used a Google technology that is not defence specific or designed for defence applications, like them running their servers on Google Cloud, or using Microsoft for their email or something. I think that's materially different to designing missiles/etc.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#45

Post by delroth »

arthurcolle wrote: post #34
danpalmer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Biased, I work at Google), but I think there's a material difference between what Google does (as I understand it, from public info) – providing infrastructure services on Google Cloud, as all the major cloud providers do, or providing customer support for cloud workloads – and building defence related technology. To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offenc…

> To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offence/defence. Project Maven? Dragonfly?

Both dropped after very significant internal outcry, even though they'd have objectively been very profitable ventures for Google.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#46

Post by toss1 »

The reality of the world is that if you want a self-determined life and a self determined government, you MUST be better armed and prepared to fight than any bully, abuser, or autocrat. If not, they will soon take your lunch and your government — every time.

Claiming you want "peace" without accounting for how you will defeat the bullies, abusers, and autocrats only helps them, not you. It brings war, not peace. Bullies, abusers, and autocrats do not give a fork about scolding and condemnation; if they succeed in taking what they want, regardless of any talk, they WILL take more — failure to stop them is literally seen as permission to do more.

So, this is the action of absolute fools and cowards. Specifically, Useful Idiots in the Vladmir Lenin sense. Or worse yet, the actions of active supporters of genocidal autocracies.

(And, do not even try to do whataboutism about the failings of the Democratic nations. Even their worst historical failings do not begin to compare vs the active genocide and war crimes being systematically committed today by the autocracies today, Russia in Ukraine, China on Tibet and Uighurs, Myanmar, etc..).

This kind of bullshirt move by sniveling cowards and poseur fauxgressives is a move in the direction of literally getting us all killed.

edit: Also possible that they are just thoughtlessly responding to some clueless complaints, but the failed to even call out even who made the complaints. Nevertheless, this still literally carries water for Xi and Putin.

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#48

Post by chrisan »

corry wrote: post #18
xyzal wrote: post #4

I wonder where that anti-military sentiment in U.S. tech stems from? At least in former Soviet bloc, we view your military in quite a positive light. Well, for sure in a more positive light than armies of competing 'superpowers'.

I say this as a Canadian (meaning - don't take my opinion on the US too seriously), but it's so strange to see what's happening to tech. US Tech in the past: "we dislike the military, the government, the military-industrial complex (and generally all authority) because we skew hippy and/or libertarian. Let us be creative and free!" US Tech today: "we dislike the military, the government, and the military-industrial c…

As an American for the past 44 years my anecdotal experience has been the 3rd option you provided mixed with senseless war and death when someone is anti military.

Growing up in republican midwest and living in CA later I haven't met someone who just goes "military bad bc political party and moral outrage". I think that is just a twitter thing

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#49

Post by madars »

arianvanp wrote: post #33

Would like to add some needed context (at least I think it's needed): * This started out because NixOS mastodon account posted on chaos.social local timeline which is rather German Mastodon instance with a strict no-military-content-without-content-warnings moderation policy. People got angry for NixOS posting about the sponsor there and started complaining en masse to drop it. I think most people complaining aren't…

>whilst also having to handle this drama on Mastodon

What do you mean by "having to"? It is unreasonable to set a standard where every single complaint on social media deserves a reply. Either the sponsor is dropped or it is not -- where is the handling?

Re: NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor

#50

Post by danpalmer »

arthurcolle wrote: post #34
danpalmer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Biased, I work at Google), but I think there's a material difference between what Google does (as I understand it, from public info) – providing infrastructure services on Google Cloud, as all the major cloud providers do, or providing customer support for cloud workloads – and building defence related technology. To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offenc…

> To my knowledge Google and the other big tech companies aren't building application directly for offence/defence. Project Maven? Dragonfly?

Project Maven looks exactly like the cloud services thing I was talking about. I'm only going on what I can read in public online news sources though. Dragonfly looks a bit different, I'm not super familiar, but it seems it was shut down anyway?
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