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Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

theguardian.com

41–50 of 72 posts

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar here. People still get annoyed when I ask. Dude, I’m just trying to save time. You can say “I don’t know” and I’ll go read. You don’t have to talk in circles, you don’t have the make something up (that will often be wrong), just admit the truth.

You should do your own research before disrupting others. It's basic politeness.

Oh, I’m not going out of the way to find someone to interrupt. But we’re already having a meeting or discussion and by the way, do you have any quick tidbits on this thing? Especially if the thing was a new topic in the meeting.

I’m happy to research and guess. But if it’s convenient (for everyone) I’ll pipe up asking for whatever morsels you have that will save time.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#42
Someone mentioned last time this or similar was posted and I agree that this division is totally written from the Asker perspective. Using "guesser" is a deprecating word. It's the person that has empathy and think about others.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#43
A certain degree of guess culture is required. No one would be happy living in a "culture" where it's normal to ask the person you're talking to "Hey, can I punch you in the face?" every five minutes — if you don't ask how could you be sure? It seems to me that the more a culture leans toward guess, the better.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#44
post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Same. I have had it get me in trouble before because I was described as "developing like a gopher" where I disappear into a hole for _x_ time and then pop out with a bunch of questions or the entire ask completed without any input and both of those things tended to be negative as well. I'm not sure how to handle it sometimes. It seems like asking too many questions can get me judged and potentially make people see me…

I find, the fact that i don't understand code is, often, the mental model of mine does not fit the mental model the writer had. Often it turns out that the writer made things more complicated than needed. Over engineering is a thing. When asking questions, including "why?", people seem to start to become uncomfortable and it becomes hard to have a constructive conversation.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#45
post #42

Someone mentioned last time this or similar was posted and I agree that this division is totally written from the Asker perspective. Using "guesser" is a deprecating word. It's the person that has empathy and think about others.

No, I think you're missing the point the neither is correct/better, and it's certainly not about which one is more empathetic or thoughtful.

"Guesser" doesn't seem deprecating at all. You might as well say "asker" sounds demanding and impertinent, but it's not meant to be either.

And you could just as easily say that askers are the ones who empathize and think about others because they want to avoid misunderstandings and stress by just being direct.

But at the end of the day, it's just different communication styles. It's a valid and real distinction, and neither is "right". Or, they're both right.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling paying for a bill "quite fun to take part in" made me chuckle. I'd rather play the game where someone else ends up paying because they put that much thought into it. If I'm treating someone I'll happily pay but if I'm at a restaurant with a bunch of people and someone is making it their mission to pay for my meal, I'm not going to fight it!

I'd rather buy everyones meal than owe one to someone else. Being paid for feels infantilizing to me. Often the person with the highest status pays, by accepting being paid for you are accepting your role beneath them.

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Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#47
post #35

The idea of Ask and Guess cultures seems reasonable, if the Asker will accept a no. However, it's easy for Ask culture to slip into Ask, followed by Ask again, "but why not?", "but you should", "but you did that for someone else", and so forth.

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Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#48
post #22
post #11

I wonder if there's any correlation, causation, whatever, between the guesser segment of the population and socially disrupting mental disorders. Autism, ADHD, etc. Giving it a quick think with the people I know (given that I don't know the mental health status of people without diagnoses) it's an almost perfect split. A secondary wonder comes in due to the theory of mind deficit that can come with those disorders -…

Many variables indeed but it's an interesting thought to consider. In my experience friends and relatives with autism are hard askers and those with diagnosed ADHD/OCD/related are all guessers without exception.

Many people with ADHD suffer from rejection sensitive dysphoria - often an unexpected "no" will wreck their day. Limiting dependence on others and over-preparing for a big ask is a way to protect their own mental well being.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#49

The article discusses how agonizing it must be for a guesser when they have to say no to something. But something I have been dealing with recently is actually the reverse—the resentment a guesser feels when told “no”. Because in their mind, they have done the math and think they have correctly deduced they should receive a “yes”. Forthwrmore, since they don’t like saying “no”, they project this on their rejector and…

> As a diehard “asker” I can’t help but see “guessing” as narcissistic. Why would you presume you know what I want?

Imagine that every time you said "no" to anything, it cost you $5.

If that were the case, would you probably find it rude if people made requests of you without much consideration - because every time you have to say "no" to such a request, $5 disappears from your bank account. I mean, you can still say "no", of course, but after a while all that money you are paying out starts to take a toll on you.

"Guess" culture doesn't exist in a vacuum. It exists in places where saying "no" to a request, even an onerous request that you have every right to refuse, exacts a social toll on the person refusing the request. Most people don't like awkwardness and don't like being perceived as rude or inhospitable, so if you live in a culture where refusing a request will lead to you being perceived that way, no matter how unreasonably, then you would probably resent being forced to saying no to requests. You might even end up saying "yes" to a few requests you would otherwise have said "no" to.

Guessers are not generally narcissistic, they are just trying to be considerate, trying to avoid placing a negative burden on your shoulders when they are the ones who want something.

Of course, if you are someone who doesn't have to pay $5 every time you say no to something, then all the incentives are misaligned and I can see why it's frustrating to deal with the guesser. But try to keep in mind that there are lots of people out there who really are paying that $5 every time.

I was raised in a hardcore guess culture, but now I have seen more of the world I have no problem asking for things directly so long as the person I am asking has no problem saying no. Without knowing that, I am still a guesser.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#50
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things are regularly being offered with the expectation that they'll be declined, or declined in expectation that they'll be eventually accepted, it allows for wiggle room where somebody can choose to break the social expectation, in effect burning some of their reputation in exchange for fulfilling a short-term need.

Fascinating. There are rules of the social game that people usually follow, but can be subverted in a move that cashes in reputation or "social capital" for a short term gain. If you do it too often, you lose favor and people will stop offering you things repeatedly, and you are expected to pick up on the social cues. I can see how that creates more social wiggle room than a strict set of rules that everyone is expec…

Reputation (or "Gift") economies are fascinating things, and a neat look into pre-(and maybe post-?)money society.

In some ways, the analogy to currency holds: If you do a favor for me, I'm more likely to do a favor for you, there's a baked in "inflation" in that reputation decays over time. But in a lot of important ways, it differs: Me doing a favor for someone actually can make me more likely to do a future favor for them, versus no exchange taking place at all, depending on our level of rapport and the size of the favor. Reputation also rewards things that no-one would bother to quantify under currency economies: small favors, being enjoyable company, loyalty. Reputation is also aggressively local: just because Alice thinks very highly of me, it doesn't mean that Bob is more likely to help me, unless he and Alice have some kind of relationship, in which case I'd be leveraging not only what little rapport I have with Bob, but also my rapport with Alice, and Alice's rapport with Bob. This is a main weakness of such systems, because currency lets you deal with people you've never met before just as easily as your local barber. That leads to the necessity of strong hospitality cultures, because outsiders otherwise have no access to resources at all.

From a modeling perspective, currency lives in the nodes of a graph: Alice has some money, Bob has some money, I have some money. Reputation, in contrast, lives on the edges: I have rapport with Bob and Alice, Bob has rapport with Alice and I, etc.

On tangentially related note, it's been a bug-bear of mine that primary education history lessons always present barter as the premonetary economic system. This is absurd on its face: if Bob is a brilliant cobbler, and I'm a farmer with shoes that regularly need repairs, I'm not going to break down into whole negotiation of how many bushels of wheat or worse yet something more perishable like vegetables from my garden a new shoe sole costs, and how I'm going to save up and store enough for when my shoes need a fix. I'm going to build a reputation with Bob, by sharing with him excess from my garden, and in exchange he'll be willing to fix up my shoes when needed. Straight-up "I'll give you 4 chickens for a coat" barter is very rarely observed in societies before the introduction of currency.

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