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2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

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Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#41
post #4

Used to be a customer of ExpressVPN but after the acquisition, it no longer worked properly in China. Mullvad somehow survives despite their server IP ranges being public

I'm surprised Mullvad works in China. Do you have to use obfuscation software (shadowsocks, etc)? The GFW blocks WireGuard, right?

> The GFW blocks WireGuard, right?

The GFW is extremely sophisticated in what it blocks and how it blocks it. I have seen it block otherwise random traffic based on packet sizes, packet patterns, stream concurrency, stream duration. It will allow connections, then probe the remote endpoint and disconnect if the probe detects banned services. It will track relationships between endpoints (e.g. blocking one resulting in traffic to another). Traffic that looks off /looks off/ and the GFW will block it -- and looking off may not be the kind of encryption or protocol, but simply how many people are using it from where and for how long.

The toughest part about working around the GFW is its consistency. Its effectiveness can vary by hour, day, political wind, etc. It can vary by what network you are on or the route your traffic takes to leave the country. The GFW isn't perfect, but it is just good enough that you give up trying.

And then every once in a while you get a news report about some VPN user getting arrested, so you get that level of paranoia, too.

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#43
While the no-logs policies of many of these providers is mentioned in their EULAs, there's never a mention of paid access to NetFlow data, which can be used to link public flows to the IP addresses of users.

Is this a thing? I recall hearing about it around two years ago.

Something along the lines of "ISPs Give 'Netflow Data' To Third Parties, Who Sell It Without User Awareness Or Consent" [0] or "How Data Brokers Sell Access to the Backbone of the Internet" [1]

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/pbdvp3/isps_give_n...

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg84yy/data-brokers-netflow-...

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends what you want. The chart doesn't really say which are the best, just which are undisputedly shady. #1 undisputed champion for security, privacy, and anonymity is almost certainly Mullvad. Note however that Mullvad servers tend to get flagged and blocked by services pretty quickly. Mozilla VPN (which you can turn on easily in Firefox) is just a thin shell around Mullvad. The ease of use could make it worth…

Mullvad is my heavy lifter (well worth the monthly fee, even on months when I never actually boot it up), but I've used Windscribe in the past and thought it was pretty decent. Back then they had a free tier where you could use a certain amount of data free of charge, and "create your own plan" tiers where you could mix and match various features at various prices. They might still have them now.

Through most of the COVID pandemic they had a 20 or 30GB free plan. Now it's back down to 10.

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#45
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised Mullvad works in China. Do you have to use obfuscation software (shadowsocks, etc)? The GFW blocks WireGuard, right?

I used to find it worked here and there for me (Shanghai Telecom, 4/5G was OK. Home didn't work). Shadowsocks worked well for me but then got janky - ended up using a local VPN for gaming and Windscribe for general browsing. For 3 sweet months I could run a AWS node and relay through that with awesome speeds but then that broke too. Ended up just with a residential IP and that solved everything til I left. There is o…

> Windscribe for general browsing.

Do you work for / are affiliated with Windscribe?

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#46
post #32
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wasn't using https://one.google.com/about/vpn I'd probably set up my own VPN box on AWS.

> I'd probably set up my own VPN box on AWS. I did this for years (OpenVPN then Wireguard, run from a simple Docker container), but it's increasingly a losing battle - so many services, especially in the streaming video space, just blacklist all requests from IP ranges associated with VPS providers such as AWS. Depends on your usecases, but accessing streaming services in another country is a big one for a lot of peo…

AWS is always the first provider I block, then DigitalOcean, then Linode

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#47

Aren’t VPNs much less useful unless they’re proven no-log VPN? I remember going down the rabbit hole and people online were skeptical unless the company had a proven FBI raid with no logs taken, haha.

> Aren’t VPNs much less useful unless they’re proven no-log VPN?

That's basically saying that every VPN is "much less useful" as there is no 100% way of proving that it's no-log.

Re: 2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map

#48

This is good! I will use this as a reference to share with friends and colleagues who ask me about XYZ VPN. I think something that is missing in the network of connections is Mozilla VPN. From what I understand, they are just a re-brand of Mullvad. There are other providers not listed, but finding a good VPN provider is kind of like finding a good watering hole--you don't want to spread the word too widely, else bad-…

I don't know if it was edited since your comment, but Mozilla VPN is in there (with an arrow pointing to Mullvad)
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