Live data from Hacker News

Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

fi.sds.modeaondemand.com

41–50 of 70 posts

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#41
Seems like this violates a few of the notice requirements most clearly:

(ii) Carriers must allow customers to reply directly to emails containing CPNI notices in order to opt-out;

As it came from a no reply address.

They have "If you prefer to opt out of letting Fi use and share your CPNI with Alphabet and Google services, you can do so by replying here" text in the email with "here" being a hyperlink that takes me to my main google fi profile page but doesn't even turn off the opt-in.

Looking forward to absolutely nothing happening! Is there even a private right of action?

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#43
I don't understand why everyone is saying this is illegal unless they are just not reading past §64.2003(k) as (l) provides for a the opt-out method, and §64.2007(b) is clear the providers can use either:

>§64.2003(l) Opt-out approval. The term “opt-out approval” refers to a method for obtaining customer consent to use, disclose, or permit access to the customer's CPNI. Under this approval method, a customer is deemed to have consented to the use, disclosure, or access to the customer's CPNI if the customer has failed to object thereto within the waiting period described in § 64.2008(d)(1) after the customer is provided appropriate notification of the carrier's request for consent consistent with the rules in this subpart.

>§64.2007(b)(b) Use of opt-out and opt-in approval processes. A telecommunications carrier may, subject to opt-out approval or opt-in approval, use its customer's individually identifiable CPNI for the purpose of marketing communications-related services to that customer. A telecommunications carrier may, subject to opt-out approval or opt-in approval, disclose its customer's individually identifiable CPNI, for the purpose of marketing communications-related services to that customer, to its agents and its affiliates that provide communications-related services.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is pretty shitty, and I already opted out, but everyone in this thread saying it's illegal needs to brush up on how to read the law.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2018-title47-vol3/xm...

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#45
post #43

I don't understand why everyone is saying this is illegal unless they are just not reading past §64.2003(k) as (l) provides for a the opt-out method, and §64.2007(b) is clear the providers can use either: >§64.2003(l) Opt-out approval. The term “opt-out approval” refers to a method for obtaining customer consent to use, disclose, or permit access to the customer's CPNI. Under this approval method, a customer is deeme…

Carriers can only use opt-out consent for a limited subset of the actions that they can use opt-in consent for. The actions that they say they plan to take do not fall under this subset. See § 64.2005.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#46
post #43

I don't understand why everyone is saying this is illegal unless they are just not reading past §64.2003(k) as (l) provides for a the opt-out method, and §64.2007(b) is clear the providers can use either: >§64.2003(l) Opt-out approval. The term “opt-out approval” refers to a method for obtaining customer consent to use, disclose, or permit access to the customer's CPNI. Under this approval method, a customer is deeme…

Carriers can only use opt-out consent for a limited subset of the actions that they can use opt-in consent for. The actions that they say they plan to take do not fall under this subset. See § 64.2005.

What part of 64.2005 excludes the opt-out consent? I read the whole thing. Please quote exactly.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Opt-in approval. The term “opt-in approval” refers to a method for obtaining customer consent to use, disclose, or permit access to the customer's CPNI. This approval method requires that the carrier obtain from the customer affirmative, express consent allowing the requested CPNI usage, disclosure, or access after the customer is provided appropriate notification of the carrier's request consistent with the requir…

No "affirmative, express consent allowing the requested CPNI usage, disclosure, or access" was obtained by the carrier after "the customer is provided appropriate notification of the carrier's request consistent with the requirements set forth in this subpart", so opt-in approval is not present. I don't see a way to parse this that equates notification to express consent.

You use more than one services from Google. You have to have a Google account before you sign up with Fi. Google is allowed to use opt-out.

§ 64.2005 Use of customer proprietary network information without customer approval.

(1) If a telecommunications carrier provides different categories of service, and a customer subscribes to more than one category of service offered by the carrier, the carrier is permitted to share CPNI among the carrier's affiliated entities that provide a service offering to the customer.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#49
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carriers can only use opt-out consent for a limited subset of the actions that they can use opt-in consent for. The actions that they say they plan to take do not fall under this subset. See § 64.2005.

What part of 64.2005 excludes the opt-out consent? I read the whole thing. Please quote exactly.

§ 64.2007 (b): Except for use and disclosure of CPNI that is permitted without customer approval under § 64.2005, or that is described in this paragraph, or as otherwise provided in section 222 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, a telecommunications carrier may only use, disclose, or permit access to its customer's individually identifiable CPNI subject to opt-in approval.

§ 64.2005 (a): Any telecommunications carrier may use, disclose, or permit access to CPNI for the purpose of providing or marketing service offerings among the categories of service (i.e., local, interexchange, and CMRS) to which the customer already subscribes from the same carrier, without customer approval.

Today's email: Fi may wish to provide you with additional information about products, services, and offers from our Alphabet affiliates, including Google LLC, that aren’t among the category of services you’re already purchasing from us

Google plans to advertise outside of the user's existing service category. § 64.2005 says that with opt-out consent, they can only do this within the existing service category. Since it doesn't fall under a § 64.2005 exemption, § 64.2007 (b) says that this requires opt-in approval.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#50
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, i guess this email constitutes "affirmative, express consent" unless user clicks on opt-out. at least this is conclusion of google legal department.

Affirmative means the user has to take an action to consent. Not doing something for 30 days isn't an affirmative action - it's known as "implicit consent" which is the opposite of "affirmative consent"[1] Express means they have to specifically consent and can't be implied to consent or consent passively somehow.[2] This is neither affirmative nor express consent. Also notice that literally nothing that Google (or a…

>I'd be very surprised if google's legal thinks this is actually consent or ok. I think most likely they said it probably wouldn't stand up to challenge and the McKinsey types who run google decided they probably wouldn't be challenged and it was worth the risk.

many of (ex)googler posts mention that legal needs to sign off on everything and looped into everything and they find it frustrating and slowing things down

change of such proportions can't be executed without involvement of multiple legal departments that both approved this decision and scrutinized every letter of this letter.

edit: from cpni itself " Use of opt-out and opt-in approval processes. A telecommunications carrier may, subject to opt-out approval or opt-in approval, use its customer's individually identifiable CPNI for the purpose of marketing communications-related services to that customer. A telecommunications carrier may, subject to opt-out approval or opt-in approval, disclose its customer's individually identifiable CPNI, for the purpose of marketing communications-related services to that customer, to its agents and its affiliates that provide communications-related services. A telecommunications carrier may also permit such persons or entities to obtain access to such CPNI for such purposes."

or in general 64.2007 and 64.2008 describe that it's ok

Post reply on HN