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Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

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Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#41

Post by Detrytus »

wkat4242 wrote: post #13
toss1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only severance but unemployment compensation (which can significantly affect mandatory unemployment insurance costs to the company) can also be avoided by companies if their people quit instead of being laid off. That is why there is the concept of "Constructive Dismissal" (or other similar terms). If the company is significantly degrading your work conditions, hours, requirements, interactions, responsibilities,…

> If you have immediate better employment options, take them without doing your old company any favors. Not sure about the US but here in Europe that's a very bad idea. If you change jobs willingly you give up your "seniority" meaning if your next job lays you off you will get no severance and also lower unemployment benefits. So caving in you would give up a huge chunk of social security. If you have a mortgage in p…

So, the biggest opportunity you can count on in your current job is to be laid off and get a huge severance? I guess that makes sense for some low level, incompetent employees who live in fear that their incompetence will be discovered and they will be laid off. For people who are actually good at their jobs that's a very limiting approach. But then, unions were invented for slackers.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#42

Post by Detrytus »

wkat4242 wrote: post #34
nradov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's really terrible advice. If you see a good opportunity then jump on it and don't look back. Otherwise your career will stagnate and you'll eventually get stuck somewhere with no growth potential. As for paying your mortgage, anyone working in a volatile field such as tech should prioritize saving up several months of living expenses. You have to assume that on any given day your employer might get destroyed…

That's a very US centric view IMO. Here the companies stick around longer. We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here. And with the ridiculous house prices and crap wages even in tech it's not really possible to save anymore. I'd take social security over anything. My accrued benefits are something I am entitled to and I worked hard for and I wouldn't drop them without a fight.

> We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here.

Which is why the gap between US and Europe is widening - 20 years ago EU GDP was on par with US, now it is 2/3rds of it (and that's after adding UK, to make things comparable after Brexit).

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#43

Post by [deleted] »

mvdtnz wrote: post #20
lotsofpulp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. A business might pay an employee severance for morale purposes, good PR, and/or to entice the employee to sign agreements that reduce the business's future liabilities. If an employee agrees to quit their job in exchange for severance mon…

> Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. Who on Earth is working without an employment contract?

[deleted]

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#45

Post by chung8123 »

pylua wrote: post #44

You don’t hear about companies innovating anymore — you just hear about them screwing over workers and customers.

I think LLMs are pretty innovated. The new Mac chips seem pretty innovated. Nvidia's H100 are so innovated they cannot keep them stocked. Companies are innovating all the time. Maybe it is because we are too focused on doom and gloom in the news.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#46

Post by pylua »

chung8123 wrote: post #45
pylua wrote: post #44

You don’t hear about companies innovating anymore — you just hear about them screwing over workers and customers.

I think LLMs are pretty innovated. The new Mac chips seem pretty innovated. Nvidia's H100 are so innovated they cannot keep them stocked. Companies are innovating all the time. Maybe it is because we are too focused on doom and gloom in the news.

That is true, but it does seem like the innovation is coming from a small number of companies while most other companies are relentlessly trying to cut costs at the expense of the customer and employee.

Maybe the news is biased towards these types of articles.

I do think this type of negativity goes against the positive mindset you need to start a company .

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#47

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

mvdtnz wrote: post #39
snkline wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, implied employment contracts are "at-will". This means the employer may fire an employee for any reason (except reasons that explicitly break a law, like firing a black employee for being black). Likewise, an employee can quit at any time, with no recourse for the employer (2-weeks notice is a custom, not a contractual obligation under at-will employment).

Just to be clear we don't have indentured servitude or forced labour in my country either. Employees can quit any time they like, even with employment contracts. A contract cannot force anyone to work, under any conditions. Even with a contracted notice period an employee can walk away at any moment. They would be in breach of their employment agreement but there's very little recourse on the employers side. The empl…

> The employer may sue for damages in the case an employee does not complete their notice period, but they cannot force them to work it. And the employer would need to demonstrate damages.

Not completing your notice period opening you up to a lawsuit sounds like essentially forcing you to work.

In America, it is exceptionally rare to hold someone liable for quitting their job, even if there are damages. Like, if I work the opening weekday shift at a small store, and decide to quit with zero notice, and now there's nobody available to open the store the next day, it's not my problem. Even though the owner could demonstrate the damages of lost sales an during those hours, there's literally nothing they can do.

At a larger corporation, even if my departure causes some major project to fall behind schedule, it's not my problem. Software engineers can quit with zero notice and be completely immune to any legal ramifications.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#48

Post by wkat4242 »

Detrytus wrote: post #42
wkat4242 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very US centric view IMO. Here the companies stick around longer. We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here. And with the ridiculous house prices and crap wages even in tech it's not really possible to save anymore. I'd take social security over anything. My accrued benefits are something I am entitled to and I worked hard for and I wouldn't drop them without a fight.

> We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here. Which is why the gap between US and Europe is widening - 20 years ago EU GDP was on par with US, now it is 2/3rds of it (and that's after adding UK, to make things comparable after Brexit).

I don't really care though. I don't always want more more more. I have enough.

The only thing that's really crazy expensive is housing but that follows GDP anyway, the real issue is shortage. I even took a pay cut to move to a lower-wage country with higher quality of life. Slower pace, better weather, better infrastructure and social services. I don't even need a car now because public transport is amazing where I live and I really enjoy not having to worry about one.

But what I want from my job is stability and security. Not golden mountains in the distance if I work myself down to the bone.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#49

Post by gymbeaux »

BigRedDog1669 wrote: post #32
gymbeaux wrote: post #22

People like the gentleman in the article are PART OF THE PROBLEM, because they (and it seems most people) seem to have a certain benevolence towards their employer (and US capitalism) no matter how hard they’re fucked by it. He was reassigned to sales, it took a toll on his mental health, but hey no hard feelings because now he’s in a role he enjoys at IBM. The message to IBM is that they can get away with it and thi…

Why not do it then rather than shaming others for not doing it?

I don’t have an employer for which to unionize

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#50

Post by nradov »

wkat4242 wrote: post #34
nradov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's really terrible advice. If you see a good opportunity then jump on it and don't look back. Otherwise your career will stagnate and you'll eventually get stuck somewhere with no growth potential. As for paying your mortgage, anyone working in a volatile field such as tech should prioritize saving up several months of living expenses. You have to assume that on any given day your employer might get destroyed…

That's a very US centric view IMO. Here the companies stick around longer. We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here. And with the ridiculous house prices and crap wages even in tech it's not really possible to save anymore. I'd take social security over anything. My accrued benefits are something I am entitled to and I worked hard for and I wouldn't drop them without a fight.

Europe has the same survival of the fittest mindset as the USA. When revenue drops, employees are laid off and businesses go bankrupt or get sold for a pittance.

Olivetti, Bull, and Nokia used to be a computing industry leaders. How many people work there now?

No one is entitled to anything beyond human rights. Your social security can be cut with the stroke of a pen. In fact, if you live long enough then that will probably happen due to the collapsing demographics in most European countries.

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