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For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#41
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument about lack of socialization from failure to attend public school might have some basis. But thinking back, I came out of the public schools with some pretty anti social behaviors and attitudes that I picked up there. Being cool is so important at that age in that setting. I often wonder what life would have been like had I been taken out say, age 12 or 13 and given a more solid education to match my natu…

Is public school really that cruel these days? I have a 10 year old, and everyone in her class seems so wholesome and... exceedingly tolerant for lack of a better phrase. Compared to when I was a 10 year old where public school was a Lord Of The Flies thunderdome with bullying, and shoving people into lockers, and fights, and in-groups and out-groups and nerds vs. jocks, all the cruel 80s stereotypes. Sure, there's t…

> Is public school really that cruel these days?

This is a good question, but how am I supposed to find out the answer with any real certainty short of exposing my kids to it? Not really a sane option. "Hey, kiddo, go dance on the minefield and see if there are any left" isn't my style of parenting.

> Sure, there's the occasional story of extreme bullying that happens to make the news, but it seems like these are far outliers these days.

It's quite possible that the extremes are just the ones that make the news. The low-intensity torment is in my opinion just as traumatizing, but unless some parent raises a big stink about it then it usually doesn't even rise to the level of neighborhood gossip.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#42
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

Do you think we should do the same with adults? Many of these arguments are also used by proponents of military service.

The funny thing about school is that almost no adults would be willing to be subjected to it. Confined to a building every day for the best years of your life, required to study what the government decides should fill your head, and a persistent risk of being beaten up. Delightful.

Ultimately the main reason that schools exist in their present form is because they are economically useful. Parents need somewhere to park their kids, while they go to work. As a child I could never understand why adults would inflict the barbarism of school on their own children, were they not aware? As an adult it all makes a lot more sense.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#43
Lol.. reading that article shows us how the establishment really wants to get rid of homeschooling and is afraid of it growing in one of the population.. they can hardly wait for some scandal in homeschooling so that they can exploit it as a crisis to shut down homeschooling

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#44
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

> The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate the youth into the “new” national identity.

Having read a bit of history about how many modern national identities were constructed over the last three centuries, that's a disturbing sentence to see written so casually. Phrases like 'breaking down regional identities' and 'assimilating the youth into the "new" national identity' remind me of the forced assimilation of Sami peoples in Norway and Sweden or the historical efforts of French governments, both republican and monarchist, to ruthlessly crush regional languages in the name of a 'right' to common language.

A more accurate way to understand the purpose of public schooling might be: the objective of public school is to break down regional identities of old and forcibly assimilate the youth into the 'new' national identity so that, as adults, they will become a more compliant, fungible labor supply which is more easily legible to the state and elites.

That deeper purpose, which you either left unspoken or weren't aware of, is what many people in the US have against public schools. There are a lot of regional identities in America that don't have much in common with mine, but I'll stand should to shoulder with them against attitudes like yours and against the policies that follow from those attitudes. Doubly so in cases where their identities were crushed in the past, which is sadly common even in America.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#45
A couple things to pull out…

(1) sometimes alternative education is worse.

There’s no question that, in some cases, alternative school is worse for a child’s development than standard public school. I’ve personally seen children who were falling behind because their parents were not equipped to teach them in high school.

(2) it can sometimes be better.

Alternative school is higher variance than public school - the children who do poorly probably do worse while it can be spectacular for some children.

We shouldn’t ignore that a relatively large percentage of homeschooled kids emerge at or near genius level. For kids for whom homeschooling works, it really works.

(3) policy should encourage choice.

On average, the US public school system is mediocre by world standards and in some parts of the country it’s an utter failure. Parents should be trusted with the care and education of their children because they’re in the best position to know what their child needs. Certainly some regulation around that freedom is in order, but we should expect more competition to produce more growth from a policy standpoint.

Just like capitalism is the best-bad economic system we have, parent-choice is the best-bad educational system. Some parents will fail at their job and others will not. But centrally planned educational systems have massive problems, and parents must be allowed to opt out of those problems as their only real form of accountability.

(4) we should avoid drawing conclusions from individual stories.

When something bad happens at a public school - kid fails, someone gets shot, drugs are found, some one gets pregnant, there’s a fight - we accept those as being part of life, not a problem with public school. But when something bad happens to a homeschooler, we tend to wonder if the _system_ of homeschooling is broken. But the reality is that those stories are likely more surprising but probably not more common than the bad things which happen at a public high school.

In the story, someone is quoted as saying “Eventually, something horrific is going to happen in one of these situations.” Which may be true and I hope we can find a way to avoid anything bad happening to anyone. But let’s not forget how many horrific things happen every week in high schools across America. It is a false promise to say that simply going to a public high school would fix all the problems found in homeschooling.

Finally, if a parent wants to outsource the teaching of their child to a person who is operating out of a house, we should let them. The parent is the person most able to accurately assess their child’s needs, and it has to be their responsibility to make good choices for their children.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#46
post #18
post #13

> Home-schooled children have attended Ivy League schools and won national spelling bees. They have also been the victims of child abuse and severe neglect. Some are taught using the classics of ancient Greece, others with Nazi propaganda. So ... just like kids in public school? Somewhat orthogonal to the article: In my state a lot of people were forced to home-school during Covid, and a significant percentage of the…

> I've known homeschooled kids that are easily 2 grades ahead of where they would be at a typical public school - and with no social shortcomings whatsoever For certain kids school is holding them up But that’s the problem with a standardization. What are the odds that all kids need the same amount of time for all subjects Initially everyone was home schooled. The school system is a feature & bug of scaling up

Classroom instruction has to be at a pace that the slowest member of the class can follow. This inevitably leaves the brighter children frustrated, to say the least.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#47
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

> Why are people in the US so against public schools? Mostly, even homeschoolers, aren’t. They either (and the latter is, I guess, a special case of the former, but worth calling out separately) think the existing public schools available to them are a failure in general or for the specific needs of their children that is unresolvable in time to adequately serve their children without being “against public schools” m…

For example:

I previously worked in the public schools, and in a museum education program that worked 90% with public school classes. My mom was a public school teacher before I was born. My sister, who I'm quite close to, still works in the public schools. We all went to public schools in my neighborhood. My middle child goes to a public school that I can see from my living room. There's no opposition to public school in my family.

When my oldest finished his public Montessori elementary school and went to the district's Highly Gifted school at age 12, it was a major step back for him. 40 minutes each way on the bus just to be at a school that was cookie-cutter and wasn't able to support his needs, particularly advanced math -- I don't think there's a single teacher in the building who even knows how to assess the gaps in his knowledge; they were trying to teach him what an exponent is when what he actually needed was to fill in gaps in calculus about techniques like Lagrange Multipliers. So he's home with me, because it's better for him. Public school was fine for him as a younger kid, and it's still good for other kids, but it's not a good fit for him now.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#48
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

> The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate the youth into the “new” national identity.

No thanks.

If it was sold as "the best education you're likely to be able to receive"... that'd be one thing. I might think that you were exaggerating and that the quality was lower than what's being sold, but I at least want that for my kids.

But I have zero interest for or against breaking down "regional identities". If it is just some social experiment, the government's attempt at engineering a culture, they can keep it.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This being HN, a site full of mostly successful folks, we are likely to only hear the anecdotal success stories of homeschooling posted here, and not the failure stories. For every gushing "I was homeschooled and I now run my own $50M company!" story, how many are not getting posted that amount to "I was homeschooled and the only book I read was the bible. I don't know 4th grade math, am unemployable and trapped as s…

The same could be said about regular public schools too, no? I know a number of people that went to a local religious school and they came out with excellent understanding of the bible and quickly married off and started having children rather than pursuing advanced education.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#50
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

Do you think we should do the same with adults? Many of these arguments are also used by proponents of military service. The funny thing about school is that almost no adults would be willing to be subjected to it. Confined to a building every day for the best years of your life, required to study what the government decides should fill your head, and a persistent risk of being beaten up. Delightful. Ultimately the m…

>Do you think we should do the same with adults? Many of these arguments are also used by proponents of military service.

I'm well aware. There is an irony to the arguments I make, because I also detest the idea of forced erasure of identity.

Military service? No. I would be in favor of some 1-yr mandatory civil service. I believe its important to interact with all classes of the society you inhabit. How else can you gain true perspective if you only live in a bubble? Life is about being uncomfortable.

>The funny thing about school is that almost no adults would be willing to be subjected to it.

Its interesting you say this, because at the same time we see adults also long for their school days as they grow to hate the 40 hour work week. Now it could be that what they really long for is childhood and youth, but people also long for their college days as well. They long for the environment where they freely mingled with people of their age, and the camaraderie they established in their "shared suffering". They miss structured periods like "recess" and "lunch" or "gym class", even though as an adult you can do these things freely.

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