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To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

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Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#41

Post by harambae »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #9
techdragon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effectiveness of public transport is significantly affected by the population density. Without sufficient people per unit area, you won’t have enough passengers to make the public transport work, depending on all the obvious factors like cost/quality of the public transport, proximity to housing without parking, the existence of housing without parking, etc. I would view the existence of housing that doesn’t come…

Weird thing my partner noticed - the obsession to have your own driveway. Two adjacent lots, two driveways costing tens of thousands right next to each other. Some lots I've seen have multiple bridges right next to each other. What a waste. Also, we've recently purchased a place and driveway has more concrete footprint than entire house...

The average driveway costs around $5k and the average home cost in the USA is now $416. So while it could be possible to shave off half of that 1.2% cost and save 0.6% it would come with needing some kind of easement or shared arrangement with your neighbor (who could change and who you may or may not be on good terms with). You also couldn't leave your vehicle or a visiting vehicle in the middle of the driveway since you'd be blocking someone else.

I had a shared driveway with my neighbor in Michigan for many years. It worked out well, especially for more efficient optimized snow shoveling. But I wouldn't say it was some kind of game changer and cure to America's housing ills.

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#42

Post by vidarh »

nottorp wrote: post #12
xg15 wrote: post #8

Judging from the articles that get posted on here, in the US you only seem to have a choice between completely bonkers regulations that only serve entrenched interests or no regulation at all. How about regulation that is actually sensible?

That's what I was thinking of. If you turn off all regulation you'll end with 20 story apartment buildings with zero parking space, zero greenery and accessible only by a tiny narrow road that's always clogged.

If everyone lived in 20 story apartment buildings there's be massive amounts of space no longer used for low density housing that could be freed up for parks etc.

My road alone takes up around 40,000m^2 to house and transport about the same as housed in 2,2000m^2 near the local train station.

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#43

Post by [deleted] »

bahro wrote: post #21

> environmental groups have already denounced the proclamation's potential to allow for high-rises in residential neighborhoods That's not an "environmental group." They may call themselves that, but there's no need for journalists to credulously repeat it. There is no "environmental" argument for preventing new residential buildings, even tall ones, from being built in existing urban residential neighborhoods. To pr…

[deleted]

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#44

Post by PopAlongKid »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #30
umeshunni wrote: post #3

Is this similar to the 'Builders Remedy' law in CA cities? In California, if a city does not plan for the number of homes required by the state, the city has to approve any housing project as long as at least 20% of the homes are low-income or 100% of them are moderate-income.

This gets repeated all the time, but from what I can tell is just a power fantasy. There are no California cities actually rubber stamping all housing, despite numerous cities being very far from compliance.

The builder's remedy circumvents the need for a city to approve or "rubber stamp" anything.

It does seem just at the cusp of finally being a meaningful provision, see this recent legal development involving the first court ruling on the law after an out of compliance city nevertheless denied a developer.

California Court Issues First Decision Addressing Builder’s Remedy; Decision on Related Lawsuit Pending

https://www.fbm.com/publications/california-court-issues-fir...

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#45

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

To tackle highest housing costs, developers are going to build luxury high rise units afforded by banks lending at the highest rates in 50 years. A sliver of affordable units will be extended to politically aligned friends and family, and of course the 50% of the workforce employed by the government.

There should be legislation associated with this decree that pins market prices where they ought to be in order to address affordability concerns. This would keep everyone accountable.

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#46

Post by reducesuffering »

rcme wrote: post #22
reducesuffering wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every NIMBY thinks they have just the right amount of "sensible" regulation. "But what about schools?" Enrollment is declining precipitously. "But what about traffic?" Okay, we're improving bike lanes, and putting accessible retail on the ground floor of housing for walkability. "No, not like that." On and on.

My experience is different. Local people care about things like schools and traffic in a way that those outside the immediate area don’t. A local example: the state of NJ built a small bridge over a creek a few year back that now allows drivers going through the Holland Tunnel into NYC to use Jersey City as a shortcut when traffic on the highway is bad. Now you basically can’t go outside during rush hour. It’s terrib…

My experience is also different. When owning a home is wildly out of reach for the incomes of 95% of people in the area, and they complain about it, they still also complain every time new housing goes up that would lower costs. They say they hate traffic but then complain about bike lanes that would encourage less traffic. They say the primary education is full, when 2/5 schools are closing and enrollment is declining into an upside down pyramid because people can't afford enough housing to feel comfortable raising kids.

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#47

Post by vidarh »

vidarh wrote: post #42
nottorp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I was thinking of. If you turn off all regulation you'll end with 20 story apartment buildings with zero parking space, zero greenery and accessible only by a tiny narrow road that's always clogged.

If everyone lived in 20 story apartment buildings there's be massive amounts of space no longer used for low density housing that could be freed up for parks etc. My road alone takes up around 40,000m^2 to house and transport about the same as housed in 2,2000m^2 near the local train station.

To late to edit now, but in case it was unclear that "2,2000m^2" was meant to be "2,000m^2"

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#48

Post by candiodari »

brutusborn wrote: post #2

Is it just me or is it crazy that it takes a massive disaster for something like this to happen? Maybe the disaster makes it politically acceptable now.

It's because in a 10 years someone is going to notice that "somehow" the current governor of Hawaii became a billionaire, along with 10 project developers. Probably this will happen when one of the buildings collapses taking 100 children directly to ~2 meters below the surface ...

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#49

Post by rcme »

reducesuffering wrote: post #46
rcme wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is different. Local people care about things like schools and traffic in a way that those outside the immediate area don’t. A local example: the state of NJ built a small bridge over a creek a few year back that now allows drivers going through the Holland Tunnel into NYC to use Jersey City as a shortcut when traffic on the highway is bad. Now you basically can’t go outside during rush hour. It’s terrib…

My experience is also different. When owning a home is wildly out of reach for the incomes of 95% of people in the area, and they complain about it, they still also complain every time new housing goes up that would lower costs. They say they hate traffic but then complain about bike lanes that would encourage less traffic. They say the primary education is full, when 2/5 schools are closing and enrollment is declini…

It sounds like we’re experiencing the same things then. The only difference is that I accept the choices of others, even if I disagree with them, whereas you believe you know better and would like to force your beliefs on others.

If 95% of people really cannot afford a home yet vote to restrict new housing starts, then maybe they prefer less housing for whatever reason. That’s not a reason to force housing upon them.

Re: To tackle highest housing costs, hawaii's gov declares YIMBY martial law

#50

Post by dzhiurgis »

harambae wrote: post #41
dzhiurgis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird thing my partner noticed - the obsession to have your own driveway. Two adjacent lots, two driveways costing tens of thousands right next to each other. Some lots I've seen have multiple bridges right next to each other. What a waste. Also, we've recently purchased a place and driveway has more concrete footprint than entire house...

The average driveway costs around $5k and the average home cost in the USA is now $416. So while it could be possible to shave off half of that 1.2% cost and save 0.6% it would come with needing some kind of easement or shared arrangement with your neighbor (who could change and who you may or may not be on good terms with). You also couldn't leave your vehicle or a visiting vehicle in the middle of the driveway sinc…

I'm not sure about that price that. You'd pay that and more for cement (or ready concrete) itself.

Quick google says $200 NZD per square meter. My driveway is at least 200sqm, thats 40k...

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