Reminds me of a blogpost by Scott Alexander that I can't find right now about the last unenlightened person, as far as he can see, in the world.
The new science of meditation
41–50 of 396 posts
Re: The new science of meditation
#42> Given that wealthy countries like the US aren’t exactly riding trend lines toward new peaks of mental health (depression rates in American adults are at an all-time high, while young people appear in the grips of a mental health crisis), scalable ways of not just mindfully soothing, but completely re-creating psychological experiences for the better should set off sirens of general, scientific, and funding intrigue…
> I can't help but feel the recent societal interest in meditation and psychedelics is wrongheaded in that it's treating a symptom rather than a cause. I agree, but the question emerges "what is treatable?" Many of the thousands of causes of stress in modern life can't be changed by an individual: I can't unelect politicians I disagree with, clean up the air where I live, or make the roads I travel significantly less…
> Many of the thousands of causes of stress in modern life can't be changed by an individual
The counterpoint is essentially that if people engaged in social outward-looking collective action, as opposed to solitary inward-looking meditation, then you can change the world -- as has been demonstrated countless times.
You certainly can unelect politicians in the next election. Environmental movements have made gigantic progress towards cleaning up the air. And congestion pricing is starting to spread as the solution for cities to reduce traffic, and it works.
As an individual you probably won't be the single tipping point. But collective action happens because lots of individuals work together, and it requires all of those individuals. But it requires more than changing your reactions, it requires collective action.
Re: The new science of meditation
#43Think of cessation, also scripturally described as the “non-occurrence of consciousness,” like voluntarily inducing the effects of general anesthesia. Consciousness switches off without a trace, while the basic homeostatic operations of the body — temperature, heartbeat, breathing — remain online. - Isn't this like the nirvana of nirvanas ? I had heard about some of the monks in the Himalayas able to attain these sta…
> can we surmise that there is no need for an external chemical to shut off the mind or to even alter the mental state of a person?
That is exactly what the Gateway Hemisync process claims to accomplish. See my post below for more information on it.
Re: The new science of meditation
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
The morbid, but critically true, reality is that there are different humans. There are Takers, Givers, Neutral. We are ruled by Takers. (service to self, as opposed to service of others) Which is a core tenant of meditation (service to others) We as a Humanity will not heal until we can kill the Takers Archetype in the psyche. Thus why meditation helps. But literally - the Takers who are the "they" or "TPTB" are so f…
> Which is a core tenant of meditation (service to others) It always seemed the opposite to me. One meditates for ones self.
>> Which is a core tenant of meditation (service to others)
> It always seemed the opposite to me. One meditates for ones self.
And in the process, like in Kant's practical reason, we recognize not only our selves, but see other selves like us in the world. There's no contradiction
Re: The new science of meditation
#45"Along a less-traveled route, meditation remains what it long was: a deeply transformative pursuit, a devoted metamorphosis of the mind toward increasingly enlightened states." This pretty much lines up with what meditation has done for me. However, the pursuit of "states" can be a trap in of itself. As my practice has gotten deeper, I've started to reframe meditation for myself as the process of unrelenting inquiry…
Could you give an example of beliefs/ideas you've let go of, or discovered can't be known to be true? I've been trying to understand the pros/cons of psychotherapy vs meditation, as both of them seem to involve letting go of false beliefs. But while there are a lot of examples of this in psychotherapy and the mechanisms are well-documented, it's hard to find first-person accounts regarding meditation that aren't just…
For me, it was about confronting deliberate self deception. In my mind I always told myself that "I dont have time to exercise", when the truth was, I was too lazy to exercise.
While I was meditating, this profound clarity came to me, it wasn't a case of a tyranny-like self-harming disclipinary action about my deliberate self deception, it was more like a great washing of positive emotion that framed exercise as "this is healthy for you, and it's only a few minutes a day and you can totally do it"
The textual description I gave does disservice to the actual feeling because my vocabulary is too poor to express it - but this wash-over of carity and positive emotion shifted my perspective and turned my relationship with exercise from this adversarial enemy to something more like our need for air or food - it's a healthy part of being an organic lifeform, and just like (good) food, it is pleasurable act of regeneration.
I think part of what holds people back is that meditation is like any other skill and practice is required, in this dopamine-hacked instant gratification society if there isn't instant results or even quick results people give up (I certainly did) -- I didn't start seeing the benefits of meditation until well after a month of practicing an hour every day, and up until then, it felt like a waste of time, which caused me to abort a few times before I forced the self discipline to stick with it.
Re: The new science of meditation
#46A few years ago I tried the very first Headspace meditation courses, back when Headspace was pretty new.
It was great! I loved it. I really felt like the narrator was knowledgeable and had something to teach me. His explanations for the process actually made sense, and weren't woo-woo mumbo jumbo. Perhaps it is all placebo effect, but even if so, the effect worked for me perfectly.
The problem is, as the industry exploded, it became harder and harder to find meditation guides that have that quality.
Even on Headspace, which I used to love, there's only so much they could provide, before the demand necessitated putting out meditation guides that are more and more ridiculous ("meditation for doing the dishes", "meditation for walking the dog", etc).
And I haven't found any guides that help me to the degree that the original Headspace ones did. Would love it if anyone has any recommendations.
(of course, you might say "you don't need a guide once you know how to do it", but personally I find it really hard without some recorded guide helping me along)
Re: The new science of meditation
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This pretty much lines up with what meditation has done for me. However, the pursuit of "states" can be a trap in of itself. Interesting, after a certain point you get diminishing returns and once you've eliminated or solved the things conflicting you, then staying in a meditative state becomes an illusory trap to avoid life and living. I knew a guy who did just that. Would spend hours meditating to the point where…
Interesting take. With this line of thinking would Buddhist monks just be practicing excessive escapism much like those who turn to drugs and alcohol? Just some random thoughts but there seems to be a reoccurring theme in life in which too much of a good thing is indeed too much. Life is about balance, all that meditating and no action does what exactly? What good is all that enlightenment if you aren't experiencing…
Maybe but not always. Some of those Buddhist monks still enjoy a few earthly pleasures albeit at levels that appear quite modest to us.
Re: The new science of meditation
#48Huairang asked [Mazu], "Why are you sitting in meditation?"
[Mazu] replied, "Because I want to become a Buddha." Thereupon Hauirang took a brick and started to polish it in front of [Mazu]'s hermitage. [Mazu] asked him, "Why are you polishing that brick?"
Huairang replied, "Because I want to make a mirror."
[Mazu] asked, "How can you make a mirror by polishing a brick?"
Huairang said, "If I cannot make a mirror by polishing a brick, how can you become a Buddha by sitting in meditation?"
[Mazu] asked, "Then what shall I do?"
Huairang asked, "When an ox-carriage stops moving, do you hit the carriage or the ox?" [Mazu] had no reply.
Huairang continued, "Are you practicing to sit in meditation, or practicing to sit like a Buddha? As to sitting in meditation, meditation is neither sitting nor lying. As to sitting like a Buddha, the Buddha has no fixed form. In the non-abiding Dharma, one should neither grasp nor reject. If you try to sit like a Buddha, you are just killing the Buddha. If you attach to the form of sitting, you will never realize the principle."
Upon hearing this [Mazu] felt as if he had tasted ghee.
Re: The new science of meditation
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
The morbid, but critically true, reality is that there are different humans. There are Takers, Givers, Neutral. We are ruled by Takers. (service to self, as opposed to service of others) Which is a core tenant of meditation (service to others) We as a Humanity will not heal until we can kill the Takers Archetype in the psyche. Thus why meditation helps. But literally - the Takers who are the "they" or "TPTB" are so f…
> Which is a core tenant of meditation (service to others) It always seemed the opposite to me. One meditates for ones self.
With the caveat that any discussion of meditation is fraught with "no true Scotsmans" and hypotheticals ...
Something that the American Theravadin Thanissaro Bhikkhu says is that meditation is "for my own benefit and the benefit of those around me."
E.g., during a disagreement with someone, you remain calm and avoid giving the other person a "piece of your mind".
The other person doesn't have to deal with the "piece of your mind", which is to their benefit.
Re: The new science of meditation
#50Ppl with mental disorders shouldn't meditate more than 20 min/day
How come? I had the impression, people with mental disorders would profit the most from it.
Mostly because longer meditation practice is more frequently associated with something called the dark night of the soul https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-...