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Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

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Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#41

Post by ajhurliman »

ethanbond wrote: post #30
TillE wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I mean, that's the whole point of that part of the fifth amendment. There would be no need for an explicit carveout of self-incrimination if the government didn't have the general ability to compel witnesses to testify.

Exactly. I suppose in some sense you have to admire America’s ability to produce people who believe the government has ~zero authority. “The government can’t possibly do [basic function of every government since dawn of tribal life], can it?” Yes indeed it can.

There’s just so much freedom over here it’s hard to tell where ends and where it begins.

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#42

Post by hgsgm »

cainxinth wrote: post #39
more_corn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you’re saying incarceration someone for 18 months without charges or trial is somehow alright? No. Not alright. If you think it’s fine I encourage you to go through it. Oh you’re not interested in spending 18mo in jail? Then STFU.

So, what then? Allow people to be in contempt of court with complete impunity?

Surely there is some sense of proportionality?

Is refusing to speak worse than the average felony?

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#43

Post by hgsgm »

thfuran wrote: post #18
dragonwriter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fear of perjury is an interesting twist, though. Its a nice try, but the right not to testify against yourself is not a right not to testify in a situation in which you might be tempted to choose (perjury not being a crime you can connit accidentally) to commit a crime.

What if you're a pathological liar?

Then you can choose psychiatric incarceration?

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#45

Post by imwillofficial »

HWR_14 wrote: post #37
imwillofficial wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about holding people in contempt and jailing them for long periods of time.

You can not be held in contempt for invoking your 5th amendment rights when they apply. That's one of the things the fifth amendment protects against.

Then why does it happen?

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#46

Post by HWR_14 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #45
HWR_14 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can not be held in contempt for invoking your 5th amendment rights when they apply. That's one of the things the fifth amendment protects against.

Then why does it happen?

It doesn't. When has it in the past 50 years? (There were some violations during the 60s and earlier). You might find a counter example with some CIA involvement or something.

Like you cannot walk into a bank with a gun yelling 5th amendment and not go to jail. It's not blanket. It protects you from statements of self incrimination.

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#47

Post by jvanderbot »

jvanderbot wrote: post #24
tarxvf wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One always has the right to remain silent, for any reason. Compelled speech is immoral. (And rights do not come from the government) The people telling you otherwise are not interested in protecting you or anyone else.

You have the right to remain silent during questioning outside court. By the way have you seen how far this has degraded? You can't remain silent until you say you are remaining silent explicitly by claiming this right. But, I'm not sure you have the right to not speak in court when called to testify.

For anyone who wants to read up on the erosion of the right to remain silent.

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/two-supreme-court-cases-...

In particular, here's a quick overview of the idea that you need to speak to invoke your right to remain silent, rather than just remaining silent.

https://versustexas.com/blog/miranda-right-to-remain-silent/

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#48

Post by imwillofficial »

HWR_14 wrote: post #46
imwillofficial wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does it happen?

It doesn't. When has it in the past 50 years? (There were some violations during the 60s and earlier). You might find a counter example with some CIA involvement or something. Like you cannot walk into a bank with a gun yelling 5th amendment and not go to jail. It's not blanket. It protects you from statements of self incrimination.

Are you serious?

Re: Wedding Photographer Spent a Year in Jail After Pleading the Fifth

#49

Post by HWR_14 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #48
HWR_14 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. When has it in the past 50 years? (There were some violations during the 60s and earlier). You might find a counter example with some CIA involvement or something. Like you cannot walk into a bank with a gun yelling 5th amendment and not go to jail. It's not blanket. It protects you from statements of self incrimination.

Are you serious?

Yes. What's your counterexample?
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