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Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

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Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#41

Post by pradn »

binkHN wrote: post #36
knallfrosch wrote: post #20

See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…

Nice. OpenBSD does something similar, with the difference being that there are no exemptions for specific software—they expect developers to fix their broken programs.

That's not similar at all! Windows takes the "Linux way" of "not breaking userspace" seriously. OpenBSD has other goals - some sense of minimality and clarity, but this is not one.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#42

Post by iknowstuff »

40yearoldman wrote: post #25

Is it? Maybe insane in a bad way. Right click on windows desktop had what now 3 different menus that might show depending on what you want to do. Oh. And let’s not talk about how much of what you see just covers the stuff up from 1998. Still rendering the old stuff only to have a slightly larger menu render right on top of it.

> Still rendering the old stuff only to have a slightly larger menu render right on top of it

Hahah no way? Is this documented somewhere? And the new UIs are slooow!

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#44

Post by sumtechguy »

touseol wrote: post #8
kjellsbells wrote: post #3

Its famously determined, but I feel that a DOS CLI app isnt much of a challenge since the DOS subsystem is essentially ossified. What would be the result if, say, you tried to run something DOS-y that was demanding or an early Win16 app? Say, Zortech C++ from 1986 with the Pharlap DOS extender or Minesweeper from windows 3.1. Would they work?

That’s not a DOS app, it’s a Win32 console app. DOS apps (16-bit or 32-bit) or Win16 apps would not run natively.

That depends on if they are using 64 bit or not. The 16bit VDM was deprecated on that move from 32 to 64. Which is the majority of most installs these days.

What is kind of neat is every windows application/dll is a valid DOS application. The first part of all of them is a valid MZ DOS 16 EXEcutable. Windows just treats it as a skippable header and reads the real header that is about 100 bytes in and then decides which subsystem to fire up (win3x, win32, OS/2, etc). But if you take a exe compiled today with current tools and put it on a DOS 3.3 box it would run the exe and print out it can not run (the exe has that in there).

Also from that era not all DOS applications were exclusively 16 bit. Many were hybrid. Just to have better control over the memory space instead of using segmentation was usually worth the speed boost (as well as the bigger registers). Windows from that era usually had extra 'pid' file where you could basically tag the executable as 'hey you are about to run a 32 bit app get out of the way windows oh and support dpmi while you are at it'.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#46

Post by gotoeleven »

40yearoldman wrote: post #25

Is it? Maybe insane in a bad way. Right click on windows desktop had what now 3 different menus that might show depending on what you want to do. Oh. And let’s not talk about how much of what you see just covers the stuff up from 1998. Still rendering the old stuff only to have a slightly larger menu render right on top of it.

The Windows 11 UI experience is opening up new markets for Microsoft. For example, Windows 11 is sold to medical schools as Microsoft Stroke Simulator 2023.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#48

Post by nullindividual »

pradn wrote: post #41
binkHN wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. OpenBSD does something similar, with the difference being that there are no exemptions for specific software—they expect developers to fix their broken programs.

That's not similar at all! Windows takes the "Linux way" of "not breaking userspace" seriously. OpenBSD has other goals - some sense of minimality and clarity, but this is not one.

And unlike Linux, has a stable ABI.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#49

Post by zwieback »

kjellsbells wrote: post #3

Its famously determined, but I feel that a DOS CLI app isnt much of a challenge since the DOS subsystem is essentially ossified. What would be the result if, say, you tried to run something DOS-y that was demanding or an early Win16 app? Say, Zortech C++ from 1986 with the Pharlap DOS extender or Minesweeper from windows 3.1. Would they work?

Zortech C++ was my rig for a good while - great memories. Pharlap is way too intrusive, my guess, to run on current Windows but would be an interesting experiment. Probably any extended/expanded memory thing doesn't work anymore.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#50

Post by Supermancho »

baal80spam wrote: post #38
40yearoldman wrote: post #25

Is it? Maybe insane in a bad way. Right click on windows desktop had what now 3 different menus that might show depending on what you want to do. Oh. And let’s not talk about how much of what you see just covers the stuff up from 1998. Still rendering the old stuff only to have a slightly larger menu render right on top of it.

You raise a valid point. Still, I'd rather be able to run software I need than not.

We have containers now. You can still run it.
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