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Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

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Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#41

Post by dalke »

mrits wrote: post #19
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #6

After a few decades of developing applications, I am convinced that frameworks are the wrong approach. You gain development speed in the beginning, but you lose it later on when the framework introduces breaking changes and you have to keep working around a changing stack. Or the framework gets abandoned and it would be too much work to maintain it. Because it has so much bells and whistles you don't need. This one f…

If your app lives in a vacuum I don't see why you'd ever need to upgrade the framework. If it doesn't then the code you wrote yourself will eventually break as the rest of the world advances their APIs and standards. Even a website written in pure HTML and put up on a small linux server a decade ago would have rendering issues as well as probably not allowed past browsers or corporate firewalls due to older SSL libra…

My static pure HTML+CSS site is nearly 20 years old and renders just fine in modern browsers.

It's so old it has no https interface.

I do depend on my hosting provider to keep Apache and FreeBSD up to date, if only for security reasons.

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#42

Post by codegeek »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #6

After a few decades of developing applications, I am convinced that frameworks are the wrong approach. You gain development speed in the beginning, but you lose it later on when the framework introduces breaking changes and you have to keep working around a changing stack. Or the framework gets abandoned and it would be too much work to maintain it. Because it has so much bells and whistles you don't need. This one f…

Most code is written to make money. Frameworks make it easy to not only start a project but run it for a long time with fast time to market. I agree that if it was just about writing nice code, libraries are good but if you want to make money writing code, frameworks help do it much faster.

You could argue that you can make money writing without frameworks but at what cost and how many teams can successfully do that ? Framework gives any team (even average ones) the headstart they need to continue to actually do something that makes money.

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#43

Post by nottorp »

ramses0 wrote: post #26

Did a cursory dive through, check: https://textual.textualize.io/tutorial/ and https://github.com/Textualize/textual/blob/main/docs/example... ...what have people had success with in golang-world? Anything reasonably equivalent someone could recommend? There's a fair amount of "stuff" for TUI's in golang, the thing that's very attractive about 'textualize' is it feels very "web-browser-y" and has a nice (scrollable!)…

> _you're_ doing all the imperative `if KeyPress.A: do_something()` instead of declarative,

You mean they don't hide the message loop as is in fashion and actually let you control it?

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#45

Post by TekMol »

eesmith wrote: post #38
TekMol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one.

In general, startup takes time - import dependencies, read config files, make a database connection, and so on. That time can be noticeable. Years ago I had to deploy on a network file system which was very slow for file stats. (It was designed for HPC and bandwidth.) Python startup (by default) requires a large number of stat calls. It took our CGI app over a second just to start. I was able to improve it by packagi…

What is your problem with startup time? Have you timed it? How long does it take?

PHP starts up from scratch on every request, yet it blows Python out of the water performance wise.

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#47

Post by ramses0 »

nottorp wrote: post #43
ramses0 wrote: post #26

Did a cursory dive through, check: https://textual.textualize.io/tutorial/ and https://github.com/Textualize/textual/blob/main/docs/example... ...what have people had success with in golang-world? Anything reasonably equivalent someone could recommend? There's a fair amount of "stuff" for TUI's in golang, the thing that's very attractive about 'textualize' is it feels very "web-browser-y" and has a nice (scrollable!)…

> _you're_ doing all the imperative `if KeyPress.A: do_something()` instead of declarative, You mean they don't hide the message loop as is in fashion and actually let you control it?

More like the generally accepted concepts of "selected, active, focus, style, change", and declaring either a visual response or "onEvent" response.

A nested hierarchy, components may be complicated internally but expose a simple input and output interface.

And yes, something a little more high level than `if key == 'a'` means you're focusing more on the data and display rather than the method. Different abstractions for different use cases, I guess.

Any recommendations?

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#48

Post by ramses0 »

zerr wrote: post #44

Are these animations and transitions done purely in ASCII text?

Yep, they made the terminal feel slow! /s

But seriously, check out their "easing" and transition stuff. The 500ms "lag" is annoying for power users, but does help provide context while learning an app's navigation I guess?

Re: Textual: Rapid Application Development framework for Python

#50

Post by regularfry »

nottorp wrote: post #43
ramses0 wrote: post #26

Did a cursory dive through, check: https://textual.textualize.io/tutorial/ and https://github.com/Textualize/textual/blob/main/docs/example... ...what have people had success with in golang-world? Anything reasonably equivalent someone could recommend? There's a fair amount of "stuff" for TUI's in golang, the thing that's very attractive about 'textualize' is it feels very "web-browser-y" and has a nice (scrollable!)…

> _you're_ doing all the imperative `if KeyPress.A: do_something()` instead of declarative, You mean they don't hide the message loop as is in fashion and actually let you control it?

"In fashion"? What?
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