eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive • Hacker News Board

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#41

Post by olyjohn » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #36

LeoPanthera wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every HN thread. No, not every HN thread, but "Every Google product". This is an entirely valid concern borne out by history. Until Google goes to extraordinary measures to prove that it will be unusually long-lived, you should assume that it will be dead in a few years. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

by your logic we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead. historically most projects and companies die too after a few years. but obviously that wouldn't be helpful for discussion or particularly insightful to spam, either.

Most people aren't affected by those vaproware products. Most people are tied into Google one way or another, and changes they make can affect everybody.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#42

Post by rvnx » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

j_san wrote: post #3

Is this targeted for the US market or also the EU? Does this qualify as a an advanced electronic signature (AdES) under the eIDAS regulation?

No it doesn't, not considered as a trusted (certified) provider and doesn't meet the level for secure user authentication.

It's like a gadget in Europe then.

But still, it is useful.

It can be used if you want to ask your daughter to promise to "Get good grades at school" in exchange for an extra Christmas gift, for example.

And make it look like official.

It's like pretending to be signing.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#43

Post by packetlost » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #40

crooked-v wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people would stop pattern-matching about it if there wasn't such an obvious pattern.

"people" don't. This is largely just a hn-ism which I've pretty much never heard outside of this bubble. In any case, repeating a cliche response on any news out of Google isn't any kind of substantive contribution to the discussion and makes for a poor hn comment even if it was true.

... did you not read any news at all covering Stadia? Like... any of it? At all??? Google's propensity for killing projects is absolutely in the mainstream mindset.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

jader201 wrote: post #32

deegles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it unwarranted?

Maybe not necessarily unwarranted, but certainly unhelpful. It doesn't really add to interesting/thoughtful discussion in the spirit of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Particularly: > Don't be snarky. Converse curiously > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. These subthreads never really go anywhere, other than fan the flames of Google hate. Again, not necessarily saying…

Signatures aren’t a move-fast-and-break-things domain. Google’s culture is bad at maintenance and wind-down. I would react negatively to someone sending me a Google e-sign without having considered these questions.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#45

Post by rvnx » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:21 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44

jader201 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not necessarily unwarranted, but certainly unhelpful. It doesn't really add to interesting/thoughtful discussion in the spirit of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Particularly: > Don't be snarky. Converse curiously > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. These subthreads never really go anywhere, other than fan the flames of Google hate. Again, not necessarily saying…

Signatures aren’t a move-fast-and-break-things domain. Google’s culture is bad at maintenance and wind-down. I would react negatively to someone sending me a Google e-sign without having considered these questions.

Inside Google, you usually get more easily promoted if you launch new products, than if you just maintain products.

Let's see the moment when Google launches Twitter-bis. It's a matter of time before it's done.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#46

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #36

LeoPanthera wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every HN thread. No, not every HN thread, but "Every Google product". This is an entirely valid concern borne out by history. Until Google goes to extraordinary measures to prove that it will be unusually long-lived, you should assume that it will be dead in a few years. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

by your logic we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead. historically most projects and companies die too after a few years. but obviously that wouldn't be helpful for discussion or particularly insightful to spam, either.

> we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead

It would be totally fair to ask an upstart DocuSign competitor about their wind-down process. The fact that I’m more confident they will have thought that through is the problem.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#47

Post by hbn » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #36

LeoPanthera wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every HN thread. No, not every HN thread, but "Every Google product". This is an entirely valid concern borne out by history. Until Google goes to extraordinary measures to prove that it will be unusually long-lived, you should assume that it will be dead in a few years. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

by your logic we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead. historically most projects and companies die too after a few years. but obviously that wouldn't be helpful for discussion or particularly insightful to spam, either.

Show HN threads don't repeatedly come from the same guy popping in with his unlimited amounts of money that he used to make yet another side project that some people will use for a few years while he gathers your data then decides to kill because it wasn't an immediate smashing success, or he wanted to redo it cause the other one was old.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#48

Post by jsnell » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:24 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #23

First this is a great idea. Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better. I haven't used the feature, but from reading the blog post it is sad to see how poorly Google executes on products, even at the beta stage. Some context: I've built such a product before and eSigs are more simple than they seem as long as you do a few things. 1) You need to verify somebody's identity. Sending them an email with t…

The article links to the help page for the feature: https://support.google.com/docs/answer/12315692. It seems likely that it'd be a lot better at answering your questions than looking at screenshots.

> They also said they will only be adding an audit trail later this year. This is really sketchy because I believe it means you, nor anybody else can actually verify if it has been signed.

From the help page it seems obvious that both the sender and signers are able to check whether the contract has been signed. "1. Open the respective PDF file in Drive or through the link in the email notification. 2. Click View details in the upper right corner of the PDF to open the right side panel and view eSignature details."

Are you saying that the only possible valid implementation of an audit log is one appended to the contract pdf?

> Can Google not send people a simple email with a link?

Obviously they could. But equally obviously from your description, this is not a feature where sending one email with one link is sufficient. Based on the help page the final signed contract is "saved in your Drive", an operation that's not meaningful for a random email address that won't have an associated Google Drive. It seems likely that this is a feature that would be blocked on e.g. embedding the audit log in the pdf as per the discussion above.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#49

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #9

namanaggarwal wrote: post #4

Will this be admissible in court of law ? I know docusign is. On what basis is it determined that particular signing tech is admissable

Varies by jurisdiction of course. Under American law and similar systems the admissibility of a type of evidence is established by it having been admitted before, and the initial admission is based on the judgement of some individual judge.

> American law and similar systems the admissibility of a type of evidence is established by it having been admitted before

It’s also been statute since 2000 [1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Glo...

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#50

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

gauravphoenix wrote: post #29

This isn't a DocuSign killer yet and won't be for a while until Google get its enterprise story right. DocuSign is deeply integrated with third party workflows in large organizations. That's where the big bucks are and you can build a sticky business.

[deleted]