Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists • Hacker News Board

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#41

Post by ZephyrBlu » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

axolotlgod wrote: post #25

HPsquared wrote: post #3

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Wow, that's a strong claim. There are various counterexamples to this, so I'd say it's definitely not a law of nature. And anyway, nature by nature (lol) is essentially lawless. It's all random collisions of tiny molecules. So, if anything, I'd say the one law of nature is that there are no laws of nature. Thus, no, there isn't always a ruling class. It doesn't have to be that way.

Can you provide some counter-examples then? It seems like all animals have hierarchies.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#42

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #8

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

>I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever

Eight of the nine current sitting Supreme Court Judges are either Yale or Harvard Law graduates. It's pretty likely Harvard has had an impact on your life in a lot of ways because a lot of people who govern you went there.

Degrees from those schools are basically licenses to occupy the highest positions in the country's administration, it matters a pretty big deal who gets funneled through those institutions.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#43

Post by Kyragem » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

The existence of these institutions hinges solely on the reputation we assign to them. If we collectively recognize them for their role in perpetuating economic inequality, catering primarily to privileged white adults whose parents bought them a ticket to attend, their worth will diminish rapidly over time.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#44

Post by tay_bridge » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

BoxOfRain wrote: post #6

HPsquared wrote: post #3

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Isn't pre-agricultural society supposed to have been fairly egalitarian in comparison?

I think the argument that “1% of the pre-agricultural humans didn’t hoard 90% of the bronze” is more of an issue of logistics than desire. Even apes and chimps have hierarchies.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#45

Post by chinchilla2020 » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

The author is pontificating on some very fundamental things without considering reality.

8 Billion human beings cannot be jammed into the same exact university. It's as simple as that. Sorry for being reductive but that's the reality. Naturally, you have to have more universities. Naturally, some will be better than others.

The author tries pushing some marxist ideas about how everything can be exactly equal but even in a marxist utopia you are going to have some neighborhoods/schools/universities/hospitals that are better than others.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#46

Post by EA-3167 » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

axolotlgod wrote: post #25

HPsquared wrote: post #3

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Wow, that's a strong claim. There are various counterexamples to this, so I'd say it's definitely not a law of nature. And anyway, nature by nature (lol) is essentially lawless. It's all random collisions of tiny molecules. So, if anything, I'd say the one law of nature is that there are no laws of nature. Thus, no, there isn't always a ruling class. It doesn't have to be that way.

I'd be interested in some of those counterexamples you mentioned, I can't think of any that weren't transient/temporary on the way to the hierarchy which normally emerges after even the most severe disruption.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#47

Post by fallat » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

axolotlgod wrote: post #25

HPsquared wrote: post #3

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Wow, that's a strong claim. There are various counterexamples to this, so I'd say it's definitely not a law of nature. And anyway, nature by nature (lol) is essentially lawless. It's all random collisions of tiny molecules. So, if anything, I'd say the one law of nature is that there are no laws of nature. Thus, no, there isn't always a ruling class. It doesn't have to be that way.

> I'd say the one law of nature is that there are no laws of nature.

That's ridiculous. There are certainly laws.

But I think OP meant more so "natural pressures" that cause things to more often than not to align certain ways.

Taking "law of nature" so literally is pretty dang useless.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#48

Post by waynesonfire » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #8

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

That's the right attitude to have. We can still do better. Trchnology like chatgpt can help close the equity gap. It's still left to be seen how much the elites will plunder it.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#49

Post by anonymoushn » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #8

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

One may as well comment that they don't see what the big deal is with racism or with having one citizenship instead of another

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#50

Post by samvher » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #8

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

I have worked in an environment where it really did seem to matter. An organization set up by Harvard folks where other Harvard folks seemed to have advantages in (a) getting in and (b) getting ahead. It wasn't ever really addressed explicitly (though "credentialism" was occasionally mentioned by others as well, I wasn't the only one who noticed). It definitely played a role in my leaving that organization.

Edit - I do feel like I should mention that the organization was improving on this front when I left.