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Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

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Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#41

Post by b2337c8ad7bd »

wpietri wrote: post #31
Sunspark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. People will just get a second private device that is not managed by the organization, and if there is a mutually beneficial advantage to doing so, the other party will do the same as well. This has been going on forever, I remember when they kicked up a huge fuss when they found out that people were doing direct pin-to-pin messages on the bla…

> Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. It's not an overall waste of time, because the goal is to reduce the enormous wastes caused by fraud, crime, and other malfeasance. I know somebody who worked at a bank. The bank had a mandatory vacation policy: you had to be 100% gone for at least two solid weeks every year. When outsiders heard about this, they were often indignant. Who i…

> When compared with the destruction of the bank, making sure that supervisors can see what an employee is getting up to is a pretty small waste in comparison.

But they can't see this according to the comment to which you're responding; that's the problem.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#42

Post by ghostpepper »

edmundsauto wrote: post #29
Sunspark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. People will just get a second private device that is not managed by the organization, and if there is a mutually beneficial advantage to doing so, the other party will do the same as well. This has been going on forever, I remember when they kicked up a huge fuss when they found out that people were doing direct pin-to-pin messages on the bla…

It’s actually a bit of a trap - if you are caught using secondary devices, it speaks to intent. Similarly, when you deposit money at a bank and they ask you to certify these are not proceeds of a crime: they aren’t expecting to catch people at that step. But if they catch you later, boom you defrauded a bank by lying and have additional charges.

How is this different from having laws on the books that ensure all citizens are breaking the law at any given time? Doesn't feel like how laws are meant to be used

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#43

Post by hdesh »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Ha, in Europe WhatsApp is even used by doctors and teachers to discuss patient/student matters, and even some government offices use it. It's wild how entrenched it is in every aspects of society, from social to business. Goes to show you how far good UX, simplicity and ease of use can take you.

Same in India.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#44

Post by ativzzz »

wpietri wrote: post #31
Sunspark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. People will just get a second private device that is not managed by the organization, and if there is a mutually beneficial advantage to doing so, the other party will do the same as well. This has been going on forever, I remember when they kicked up a huge fuss when they found out that people were doing direct pin-to-pin messages on the bla…

> Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. It's not an overall waste of time, because the goal is to reduce the enormous wastes caused by fraud, crime, and other malfeasance. I know somebody who worked at a bank. The bank had a mandatory vacation policy: you had to be 100% gone for at least two solid weeks every year. When outsiders heard about this, they were often indignant. Who i…

Is this one of those cases where it ends up causing death by regulation?

Take the pharmaceutical industry in the US. One reason it's so expensive for them to operate is the massive amount of rules and regulations that surround their work and cause them to hire tons more highly skilled personnel in order to meet those regulations just to get work done.

Now all those rules exist because someone did something bad and the rules prevent those bad things from happening again, which is a good thing. However, it increases the cost of doing business, and over time, as these rules and regulations pile up, everything gets more and more expensive and complex.

It's unfortunate that we as a society now have to pay for the actions of a bad actor in perpetuity. I don't know of a good alternative, because again these rules exist for a reason. Fraud is obviously bad, and people will constantly take advantage of the system until we regulate it more and more, but then normal rule followers pay the price.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#45

Post by FirmwareBurner »

croes wrote: post #17
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Ha, in Europe WhatsApp is even used by doctors and teachers to discuss patient/student matters, and even some government offices use it. It's wild how entrenched it is in every aspects of society, from social to business. Goes to show you how far good UX, simplicity and ease of use can take you.

How often is the use GDPR compliant? I guess people don't care unless someone sues

It's not GDPR compliant but some governments don't offer any alternatives.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#46

Post by wpietri »

b2337c8ad7bd wrote: post #41
wpietri wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such a waste of time trying intently to regulate and control communication. It's not an overall waste of time, because the goal is to reduce the enormous wastes caused by fraud, crime, and other malfeasance. I know somebody who worked at a bank. The bank had a mandatory vacation policy: you had to be 100% gone for at least two solid weeks every year. When outsiders heard about this, they were often indignant. Who i…

> When compared with the destruction of the bank, making sure that supervisors can see what an employee is getting up to is a pretty small waste in comparison. But they can't see this according to the comment to which you're responding; that's the problem.

They will do it a lot less when it turns out that it's illegal or will get them fired. Which is what the article we're discussing is about.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#47

Post by phyrex »

bombolo wrote: post #13
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also security. WhatsApp end-to-end encryption or even better, Signal where messages can't be replicated to any other device is more reassuring than a custom implementation ... But it looks like this lawsuit is exactly about the opposite, that messages cannot be accessed and reviewed easily. It's also easy to understand why banks prefer using secured applications like Signal when discussing secret deals rather than ta…

> WhatsApp end-to-end encryption or even better so they claim… not that fb has ever given us a reason to trust them.

You don’t need to trust Meta, there’s tons of regulatory oversight

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#48

Post by [deleted] »

SilasX wrote: post #7
polygamous_bat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK you are allowed to use any channel as long as you preserve records of the conversation. However, meeting the standards for preservation is quite difficult, which is why employees of financial institutions are generally told not to communicate outside person-to-person, or channels vetted by their company (and lawyers thereof).

So ... you aren't obligated to preserve records of the conversation if the channel is "in person", then.

[deleted]

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#49

Post by dundarious »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #3
pipo234 wrote: post #2

Are US bank employees prohibited from discussing financial matters using anything but official channels (email, paper?) per se OR is this about using other channels and failing to preserve records of the conversations ?

AFAIK you are allowed to use any channel as long as you preserve records of the conversation. However, meeting the standards for preservation is quite difficult, which is why employees of financial institutions are generally told not to communicate outside person-to-person, or channels vetted by their company (and lawyers thereof).

Also, compliance teams want live or near-live access, and do run dynamic filters on that live content. I can’t imagine a non-criminal* compliance team accepting a solution that is T+1 or that depends on manual action from the employee.

* I’m barely using hyperbole

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#50

Post by TimTheTinker »

SilasX wrote: post #7
polygamous_bat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK you are allowed to use any channel as long as you preserve records of the conversation. However, meeting the standards for preservation is quite difficult, which is why employees of financial institutions are generally told not to communicate outside person-to-person, or channels vetted by their company (and lawyers thereof).

So ... you aren't obligated to preserve records of the conversation if the channel is "in person", then.

Right - or if it's over the phone.
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