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How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

economist.com

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Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#41

Post by bee_rider »

gostsamo wrote: post #24

Surprisingly few people engage with the main points of the article. It is pointed out how much money are spent, but the article is about how profitable those fabs will be. The author is conservative in judgments, but they ask a few questions worth considering, mainly: are the fabs big and efficient enough to offset the slower build, which is also more expensive, for lower volumes of production.

I think most of us only can reply to the first paragraph or so, and the first plot, because of the paywall. So most of the conversation is about the headline.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#42

Post by qbasic_forever »

tylerfontaine wrote: post #9

I live in a relatively small city that has a 30B phased wafer fab project under way, and an another separate 5B wafer fab project underway, and plans for at least one more in the next couple years. Anecdotal, of course, but there's some real things being built for sure.

Is that a city that TSMC is already throwing under the bus and saying the American workers there are lazy and not cut out for their harder Taiwanese business/work ethic? https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/29/tsmc-arizona-chip-plant-delay...

I don't think any of this onshoring, if it ever actually happens, is going to be a net positive for the areas that host the fabs. TSMC is already sending hundreds of their own workers over to America to work on stuff because they aren't happy with the local workforce, I don't see any reason why this will change any time soon. The US is just going to be a place they send their workers to fab chips in plants that got sweet cost/tax breaks, and that they don't care at all about polluting the local environment.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#43

Post by adolph »

photochemsyn wrote: post #25

America's basic socioeconomic structual model is highly flawed and any company wanting to do manufacturing here will see obvious disadvantages compared to Europe or Asia. 1) Employers are responsible for employee health coverage, inflating employee costs by a significant degree. The rationale for this model among the investor class is that it makes employees dependent on their employer and limits the power of unions,…

> obvious disadvantages compared to Europe or Asia

> Employers are responsible for employee health coverage, inflating employee costs by a significant degree

> for example in Germany, there's free state-supplied health care (paid for by higher taxes on individual and corporate profits).

TANSTAAFL, just choose your favorite accounting structure. A company with a younger contract workforce (and likely lower spending/risk profile) might find the funding model advantageous.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#44

Post by a_wild_dandan »

foofoo4u wrote: post #33

CNBC's take on the matter [How Texas Became The American Chipmaking Hub]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDamhO7my9A ). Although the 17 minute clip is Texas-centric, it still talks about other states.

This was an excellent watch. Thank you.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#46

Post by javajosh »

nordsieck wrote: post #31
javajosh wrote: post #6

When these types of things are funded one always gets the sinking feeling that the money is just getting stolen and/or wasted by savvy insiders who know how to write grants or who know the right people. In fact, I think that's a reasonable assumption and some proof is required to show that it is not the case.

> When these types of things are funded one always gets the sinking feeling that the money is just getting stolen and/or wasted by savvy insiders who know how to write grants or who know the right people. That's definitely the feeling I get when I see the grants that get given out for Broadband to underserved areas. So much money gets spent on infrastructure for not much actual benefit. Hopefully these fabs don't fol…

It would be cool if there was a neighborhood watch but for projects and/or money. Like, a couple dozen people in the community who watch that specific money like a hawk, to make sure it benefits the community and moves along at a good pace and the actors don't take advantage.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#47

Post by gostsamo »

bee_rider wrote: post #41
gostsamo wrote: post #24

Surprisingly few people engage with the main points of the article. It is pointed out how much money are spent, but the article is about how profitable those fabs will be. The author is conservative in judgments, but they ask a few questions worth considering, mainly: are the fabs big and efficient enough to offset the slower build, which is also more expensive, for lower volumes of production.

I think most of us only can reply to the first paragraph or so, and the first plot, because of the paywall. So most of the conversation is about the headline.

there is an archive.is link posted in the comments and at least firefox has extensions for circumventing paywalls.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#48

Post by wrycoder »

SoylentYellow wrote: post #45
isykt wrote: post #17

The world’s largest deposit of ultra pure quartz, which is needed for the very high end processors, is in North Carolina. The renaissance is real, or is about to be.

What is quartz used for beyond oscillators?

Reduce pure quartz, get pure silicon.
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