Ways to teach kids to code (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#41

Post by djbusby » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 2:21 AM UTC

seabass-labrax wrote: post #13

avgDev wrote: post #4

I don't see it mentioned and I am bit surprised, but teaching kids how to breakdown "common" tasks into instructions. No programming language needed. Then, introducing edge cases. I remember a programmer making a video about their child writing instructions to "make p&j" sandwich. Did you check if you have PB? What happens if you don't? Did you put the bread down first? Or are you applying PB to the counter.

That's the imperative programming case. Declarative programming is about defining each part of the final result. What's a peanut butter and jelly and sandwich (the result)? It's a slice of bread atop a layer of peanut butter atop a layer of jelly atop a slice of bread. Recursively define each part, for instance defining a layer of jelly in terms of manipulated blobs of jelly. Reverse the order of the definitions if u…

You forgot to specify Chunky or Smooth peanut butter!

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#42

Post by djbusby » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 2:45 AM UTC

kathlam wrote: post #35

I’d be more interested in ways to teach kids to think. What are some good books/tools/games for that?

I think some "old-school" games are good for that, cause usually these games are simple and only home one skill at a time, eg: mancala, senet, backgammon, pachisi, mills. Even chess/checkers. Gentle problem solving, some math some resource planning, some chance. Important life fundamentals.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#43

Post by caslon » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 6:09 AM UTC

pkdpic wrote: post #2

I love these suggestions, especially the card game and making their own website. I had my first real dev job when my son was born and I gave how to teach him code / reading / math a lot of thought. I tried speak and spells, workbooks, little toy pretend computers that had math games etc. In the end just giving him a raspberry pi with ubuntu, a big kids keyboard and no mouse seems to have been all he ever needs / want…

Hot Wheels has cars with NFC chips in them, and they're only about $5 a car. You could teach him how to make a stats tracker to compare his favorite cars, see which are the fastest, and which perform the best over time, with a cheap NFC reader you could place under tracks. You could even get some old-fashioned character LCD displays, make a little scoreboard and teach him how to print the winners on it.

If you're willing to learn to teach him something, it wouldn't even be that hard to get into hardware a little to make programmable tracks, and that'd be a relatively cheap hobby to share with him. Some cheap actuators from Digikey or Mouser and a $250 3D printer (which is an incredible tool to have if you're frequently around children anyway), and not only is he set with skills that'll make so much of his life easier, it'll probably be more interesting to him right now than making a card game.

Remember, hacker culture and everything that's downstream of it (like the free software movement) came about not because people were trying to prepare themselves for the workforce or from ambition, but because people wanted to make their toy trains run on time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_Model_Railroad_Club

If he likes toy cars, then please, please, please find the intersection of your love of computing and his love of cars. It's not a bad sign that he cares about Hot Wheels, that's actually amazing! There's a lot of cool ways to introduce technology to a love of cars, and the types of projects that exist in the intersection of programming and cars are incredibly useful for understanding computers on an intimate level. You can work on tracks and scoreboards like I mentioned, or you could take his Hot Wheels and help him turn his favorites into RC cars.

https://hackaday.com/2020/08/12/scratch-build-of-this-tiny-r...

https://hackaday.com/2021/04/23/modding-a-hot-wheels-car-int...

If you want to go big, when he gets a bit bigger there are even more projects you could do. A simple ride-on kids' car (think a Power Wheels clone) is completely doable by someone of your vocation. If that seems like a bit too much for you, then you could always help him walk through a tutorial on how to make a self-driving RC car:

https://ori.codes/

I'm not hugely into cars; none of this is stuff that requires knowing about them to help your kid with. Please consider doing so; you seem like a really well-intentioned parent, and taking advantage of a kid's interests really helps when trying to teach them things. Thanks for caring about teaching him computing; genuine enthusiasm to share your love of something with a child can make a world of difference.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#44

Post by oliwarner » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 9:06 AM UTC

dudul wrote: post #40

tmpz22 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey now if the kid hasn't elevated themselves through 3 FANNG roles by the age of 8 how could they ever make a meaningful impact on the world of ad-tech?

We all know the only way to get a job is to be able to put on your resume "started programming at 3".

Especially when unpaid internships require 10y experience.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#45

Post by pipes » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 2:58 PM UTC

avgDev wrote: post #4

I don't see it mentioned and I am bit surprised, but teaching kids how to breakdown "common" tasks into instructions. No programming language needed. Then, introducing edge cases. I remember a programmer making a video about their child writing instructions to "make p&j" sandwich. Did you check if you have PB? What happens if you don't? Did you put the bread down first? Or are you applying PB to the counter.

Being made to write out instructions like that sounds like total misery. Maybe not as I haven't seen the video.

I'm a bit sceptical about teaching kids to program, it feels a bit like teaching them plumbing or some or trained skill. Though I'll probably introduce my daughters to it and see if they are interested. If not we can do something else.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#46

Post by LorenzoGood » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

For me at age 7, the hardware definitely did the trick. My parents sent me to a summer camp, which kick-started my interest.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#47

Post by aeontech » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 12:16 AM UTC

pipes wrote: post #45

avgDev wrote: post #4

I don't see it mentioned and I am bit surprised, but teaching kids how to breakdown "common" tasks into instructions. No programming language needed. Then, introducing edge cases. I remember a programmer making a video about their child writing instructions to "make p&j" sandwich. Did you check if you have PB? What happens if you don't? Did you put the bread down first? Or are you applying PB to the counter.

Being made to write out instructions like that sounds like total misery. Maybe not as I haven't seen the video. I'm a bit sceptical about teaching kids to program, it feels a bit like teaching them plumbing or some or trained skill. Though I'll probably introduce my daughters to it and see if they are interested. If not we can do something else.

Plumbing skills are not a terrible thing to have actually, but I would see this more like teaching literacy and math... basic ability to manipulate data, think logically, and debug your ideas is going to be useful regardless of what field the person might end up in, imho.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#48

Post by TOGoS » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #20

rajamaka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many different paths to the same goal. Some kids are maybe better off just picking up C documentation and going straight for it. Some are better starting with some web based gamified psuedo language.

No. If you have to infantilize something for them, they're not capable of learning it.

There are varying degrees of simplifying things, from purposely obfuscating in order to look smart or fill out your paper to the required length, to sloppily throwing an explanation together, to carefully removing unnecessary complexity and using terms your audience is familiar with, to oversimplifying to the point where there information you're giving is actually bad. Maybe that last one is what you mean by 'infantilizing '.

Always pick the third option, regardless of who you're talking to, to maximize your chance of getting your point across.

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#49

Post by seabass-labrax » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 9:17 PM UTC

djbusby wrote: post #41

seabass-labrax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the imperative programming case. Declarative programming is about defining each part of the final result. What's a peanut butter and jelly and sandwich (the result)? It's a slice of bread atop a layer of peanut butter atop a layer of jelly atop a slice of bread. Recursively define each part, for instance defining a layer of jelly in terms of manipulated blobs of jelly. Reverse the order of the definitions if u…

You forgot to specify Chunky or Smooth peanut butter!

Ah, I knew I would forget something! Let it be a warning to whoever considers asking a British person to make their P&J sandwiches for them ;)

Re: Ways to teach kids to code (2016)

#50

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

aeontech wrote: post #47

pipes wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being made to write out instructions like that sounds like total misery. Maybe not as I haven't seen the video. I'm a bit sceptical about teaching kids to program, it feels a bit like teaching them plumbing or some or trained skill. Though I'll probably introduce my daughters to it and see if they are interested. If not we can do something else.

Plumbing skills are not a terrible thing to have actually, but I would see this more like teaching literacy and math... basic ability to manipulate data, think logically, and debug your ideas is going to be useful regardless of what field the person might end up in, imho.

Have there been any studies showing, e.g. correlation between having been exposed to programming techniques at an early age and better critical/ logical thinking skills later on in life? I'd be surprised if there were none, but equally I'd wonder how much was really cause and effect, vs kids with inherently more analytical mindsets more likely to opt for and spend time on learning how to code in the first place.