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Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

charity.wtf

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Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#41

Post by f1shy »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

I cannot believe I'm not the only one! Exactly this is what I'm doing... helping the ones who want. And use my knowledge to do the work of 1 week in 4 hours...

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#42

Post by evandale »

f1shy wrote: post #41
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

I cannot believe I'm not the only one! Exactly this is what I'm doing... helping the ones who want. And use my knowledge to do the work of 1 week in 4 hours...

You're far from the only!

I love programming and I'm more than happy to work with juniors and solve junior tasks. I feel like this industry puts so much pressure on people to be an engineer or an architect or something more than a person who writes a little script to fix something and moves on. Everything built today seems to have to be architected and scalable and I hate it.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#43

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

baz00 wrote: post #37
zgluck wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making software is a bit special in that you can't really make use of people like that. In e.g. a supermarket you can.

That is exactly the problem. Business assumes highly technical people are fungible. They are not. There are very few highly competent people on the market. Not enough to cover realistic requirements for business. So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks.

> So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks.

Isn't it more accurate to say they hire anybody making duck noises assuming they are wolves? Technical interviews in no way identify the skills developers are going to use in their daily work.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#44

Post by baz00 »

evandale wrote: post #39
baz00 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a manager we like people who actually build a house out of something other than shit and straw as we have to present that to people who don't like us and we just want a peaceful life too. So keep it simple, quality and don't get distracted by shiny things.

Sometimes I need the distraction and want to try out the shiny things. I really should find a new job because my manager has your attitude and it drives me crazy. I'm at a big corp and I can't stand the "just deal with it, there's processes and they suck but it's for the best" attitude that everyone has. I keep having the delusion that this year will be different because there has been small improvements.. but ffs. W…

I think you misjudge the situation. And I'm not that manager. If there's an enabler I'll help you get it out and keep the politics away from you. That's my job.

But most stuff out there isn't moonshot project work. It's boring ass maintenance and minor function changes. What I don't want is when someone is asked to change a web form to find a whole fucking ReactJS stack pulled in because someone is bored or it looks good on their résumé. This does happen.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#45

Post by frabcus »

jareklupinski wrote: post #5
zgluck wrote: post #3

(Context: Northern Europe) Switching jobs is quite hard as an (engineering) manager, at least if you're a bit introverted like me. Often you depend on the number of people who trust you from their experience working with you that have switched companies and have come into a trusted position there. My career: ages 20-30: Individual contributor. ages 30-45: (Engineering) manager, running product development teams of va…

thinking about making a move towards management, for a similar reason: I really enjoy programming, but after slinging code for 8 hours at work, I can't justify working on my hobby projects when I come home anymore... hoping that by using more of my "soft skills" and thinking about architecture at work, I'll be able to come home and work something like a solitaire solver without feeling like it's "non-productive"

I think over the years it's healthy to switch back and forth between management and IC, and sometimes inbetween as a tech-lead manager.

Being recently hands on with the technology helps coach and assess reports and means you know the real situation of the software.

Being a manager, if you carve out enough space, lets you make a highly productive, happy, successful team, and sometimes you might be the best person to do that.

I think I'd find only doing one forever more a bit tiring!

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#46

Post by baz00 »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #43
baz00 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly the problem. Business assumes highly technical people are fungible. They are not. There are very few highly competent people on the market. Not enough to cover realistic requirements for business. So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks.

> So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks. Isn't it more accurate to say they hire anybody making duck noises assuming they are wolves? Technical interviews in no way identify the skills developers are going to use in their daily work.

Finding technically competent people is easy. Finding people who continue to give a fuck the moment their trial period is over is difficult.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#47

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

baz00 wrote: post #46
lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks. Isn't it more accurate to say they hire anybody making duck noises assuming they are wolves? Technical interviews in no way identify the skills developers are going to use in their daily work.

Finding technically competent people is easy. Finding people who continue to give a fuck the moment their trial period is over is difficult.

> Finding technically competent people is easy.

This is not what I've been told by many, many hiring managers over the past few years.

> Finding people who continue to give a fuck the moment their trial period is over is difficult.

Well... yeah? I've been saying for years now that if passion is a hard requirement to getting a job, then you're begging your applicants to lie to you.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#48

Post by baz00 »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #47
baz00 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding technically competent people is easy. Finding people who continue to give a fuck the moment their trial period is over is difficult.

> Finding technically competent people is easy. This is not what I've been told by many, many hiring managers over the past few years. > Finding people who continue to give a fuck the moment their trial period is over is difficult. Well... yeah? I've been saying for years now that if passion is a hard requirement to getting a job, then you're begging your applicants to lie to you.

It's really easy. The problem they have is finding technically competent people in the desired budget.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#49

Post by evandale »

somethoughts wrote: post #21
pixelatedindex wrote: post #8

I don’t know about the part where Charity mentions it’s really really easy to get an Eng job than a manager one. As someone who got laid off recently, it sure as heck doesn’t feel that way. And the skills not being transferrable? How is being good in a particular field of tech _more_ transferable than management skills, which is arguably needed everywhere be it tech or not. Finally the credit/blame - managers and peo…

My observation has been that unless you are amazingly charismatic or a force of nature, as an engineering manager much of your value is in your ability to understand your specific companies unspoken intricacies such as: * who the different personalities are within the specific organization in order to get things done and who's opinion you need to take into account and who you can safely ignore * who you can escalate…

I hate this comment because it describes my workplace to a T. It's scary how accurate it is.

So many fragile egos in high authority positions who can't admit they made a terrible decision 3 years ago and are still in denial and doubling down on it.

shudders

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#50

Post by yardie »

riku_iki wrote: post #24
yardie wrote: post #6

Was nearly fired once for telling the truth. Made me realize I'm not sociopathic enough to laud power over people nor do I kiss enough ass to be coddled by higher ups. I'm quite happy with my IC/senior role. I am running into the situation where pay bands are tied into titles. Once you reach the upper end of your pay band you have to gain a new title. So you'll be pushed into management track or pushed out the compan…

> I'm pretty sure I'm headed for the latter. and what is your playbook for this given job market is not good.

Work on my MVP and travel to extend burn rate. My employer will be myself.

Another reason I don’t want to be in management. Email and Slack ruin your life.

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