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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

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Re: At this company, we are family

#41

Post by yCombLinks »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

We pay less tax, but pay for health insurance rather than having taxes pay for healthcare.

Re: At this company, we are family

#42

Post by bradleyjg »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #25

The problem with this and many companies trying to be family etc, is that they completely misunderstand what a family is. Most think a family is a group where people love each other and care for each other. This is wrong, love and affections are symptoms of a healthy family, you can love and care for your friends, you don’t have a family with them. You can actually not really like spending time with many people in yo…

Adult family relationships have historically been culturally mandatory and unseverable but that’s increasingly not the case in the US.

Cultural messages that use therapy-speak, if not necessarily promulgated by actual therapists, encourages more and more atomization. Anyone that is annoying, disagreeable, or who has the wrong ideology is labeled “toxic” and people are encouraged to cut them out of their lives. This includes parents, siblings, spouses—of course an uncle or cousin is entirely disposable.

Re: At this company, we are family

#43

Post by johneth »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I think there's a middle ground between 'at-will employment capitalist hellscape' America and 'unable to be fired for months socialist hellscape' Europe.

Re: At this company, we are family

#44

Post by esquivalience »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I don't know about the substance enough to comment, but did want to remark that I saw no sarcasm in the post you replied to.

Re: At this company, we are family

#46

Post by aix1 »

anon291 wrote: post #37
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

> You should fight for some more rights, sometime What is the purpose of these 'rights'? As a software engineer in America, who's been laid off many times, I get (1) unemployment, (2) 100% free medical (few SW engineers apply, but most who are laid off would be eligible, if they cared),(3) a free vacation for however long as I want, (4) lots of savings because I make so much more than my European counterparts, and (5…

> been laid off many times

How does one end up being laid off many times? Have you had a long career or do you specifically seek out high-risk high-reward jobs?

Or just the roll of the dice?

Re: At this company, we are family

#47

Post by duxup »

me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

I certainly understand the companies that say that and want to use it as a method to manipulate employees and so on. I want to set that aside, and say that even if it was a positive thing ... I DON'T WANT to join another family, certainly not one I don't know. Family is not an entirely positive experience.

To me family is a lot of responsibility, it's an emotional investment, it's a time investment. There are rewards, but also limits and boundaries even in families. At a company, that's an endless amount of just relationships to manage in the form of a family. I have that with my family, that's enough for me.

I worked at a place where after several moves and re-orgs we ended up sitting next to a very strange HR group. They all seemed like good friends in HR, friends outside of work, and yet at the same time they fought like children... a great deal. A lot like a family might.

It was HORRIBLE. I don't know the phrase but they had these constant "emotional impositions" (not sure if that's the right phrase) on each other and everyone around them.

I'd constantly run into one of them in the conference room I reserved ... crying. Now a few times, whatever, I'll happily shepherd everyone to another room. It happens, no big deal. But it wasn't once in a while. It was constant, and if it wasn't someone crying it was them arguing unprofessionally and so on.

They even went so far as to complain the people sitting next to them (overworked, ultra busy tech support team) "are not social" / was "always at their desks working" and complained that tech support didn't attend their events that always had the food and events they wanted (weird pizza, etc). They complained to management about it constantly, I don't know what they expected those people to do, force them to socialize?

As a family goes, I kinda expect all that, but I don't want that at work. It's unprofessional, unproductive, and IMO emotionally manipulative.

I've formed close relationships at work, I care about he people I work with, that's great, but it's a choice and I don't just embrace any given stranger as "family", nor is it appropriate to expect anyone to.

Re: At this company, we are family

#48

Post by pixelatedindex »

quux wrote: post #30
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

Is that kind of language legal in states like CA and NY with WARN laws?

WARN just states that you need to give advanced notice, and if you don’t then you have to give severance. Usually you have to sign a release to get your severance, and that includes being in good standing. I’m not sure if the employer can define what “good standing” is, or if it’s a legally binding term.

All this to say, it’s probably legal.

Re: At this company, we are family

#49

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

oldandboring wrote: post #33
FredPret wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

This is a refreshing comment to read. HN and Reddit discussions about employment in the US is often just a dumpster fire of "America bad", half-baked theories and observations from the perspective of the employee, where US workers have no rights and would be rioting in the streets if we hadn't been brainwashed by corporate media. Here on earth, what you wrote is much closer to the truth. The American economy is awash…

> with employees free to move around and chart their own destiny

What about the European system prevents that for the employee?

Re: At this company, we are family

#50

Post by tambourine_man »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

This is an often repeated mantra: “sure you'll lose some rights, but it will be way easier to find higher paying jobs in a more dynamic market”.

I've lived in two countries that went through this transition in labor laws to follow the neoliberal playbook. Guess what happened.

See also “less regulation will mean more agile and competitive market which will auto regulate itself”, etc.

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