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Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

news.unl.edu

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Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#41

Post by bordercases »

opportune wrote: post #31
dataflow wrote: post #14

As someone who avoids cooking with plastic, I've always wondered... what makes people think it's safe? Does it not occur to most people that plastics can break down through the heat they're subjected to, or do they assume the plastics in question have been specifically designed to adequately withstand that?

If it were extremely or noticeably bad for you in the short term, it would be obvious and we would know about it. Generally I assume that I consume microscopic inedible dirt/mineral/etc particles all the time without know it and they most likely pass through my digestive system. I know of course that digestion is complex and that many of these likely are absorbed to varying degrees. I try to not cook with plastic gen…

Why only care about the short term?

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#42

Post by H8crilA »

defatigable wrote: post #21
dataflow wrote: post #14

As someone who avoids cooking with plastic, I've always wondered... what makes people think it's safe? Does it not occur to most people that plastics can break down through the heat they're subjected to, or do they assume the plastics in question have been specifically designed to adequately withstand that?

My basic mental model is that my body is constantly consuming chemicals that it doesn't use, be it particulates in the air or substances in the foods I eat or drink. My body is very good at incorporating the substances that it finds useful and ignoring (or killing) the ones that it doesn't, so I don't find myself worrying too much about any particular substance it might take up. To your point, I don't have any partic…

Exactly. Few things can cross the intestine wall, for example we don't have a problem with the absolutely insane amount of bacteria that process food inside of us and produce, well, shit. If you were to make a small cut in the intestine somewhere, well, then chances of getting septic (i.e. the bacteria overpowering your immune system) are high.

So I'm not worried about things larger than a bacteria, unless proven otherwise.

The other issue is with quantity. We all have lead or radioactive isotopes embedded in the body. Or, we can breath in small quantities of carbon monoxide, form example from a passing by car. That doesn't immediately cause problems, the quantity matters.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#43

Post by bordercases »

rcme wrote: post #15
dataflow wrote: post #14

As someone who avoids cooking with plastic, I've always wondered... what makes people think it's safe? Does it not occur to most people that plastics can break down through the heat they're subjected to, or do they assume the plastics in question have been specifically designed to adequately withstand that?

I don't think plastic is safe and avoid it whenever possible, but an argument for its safety is that it has been widely used for a hundred years and we still don't have many direct causal links between plastic and health problems.

They would be hard to establish if you didn't have data on the kinds of health problems that would only show up post-plastic.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#44

Post by userbinator »

productizeme93 wrote: post #2

It's surprising to me how much we don't understand about plastic still. Years ago I was in a kitchen shop with an out of town friend and we saw some Sous Vide equipment. I told her that we had one and that you could either plastic bags or vacuum sealed bags to cook in the water. Her reaction was an immediate "absolutely not." That's when I realized that she worked in a lab that focused on plastics. Her big call out w…

What exactly were those studies on?

Those bags are almost certainly polyethyelene without any additives, which is safe and has been in widespread use for almost a century.

Petroleum jelly is far more reactive than PE, although it's substantially the same chemical structure, yet most of us regularly use it on our skin.

If the biggest concern about sous vide is the plastic, then I think that's a very strong argument for its safety, as I'm sure you get far worse byproducts from other more common cooking processes like baking or frying.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#45

Post by cobalt »

Vecr wrote: post #37
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, there are silicon sous vide bags. Second… if you are at the level that a bag with meat in it for 2 hours at 140 degrees is too risky… you had better get working on that cabin in the woods.

Are you talking about silicon or silicone? I'm confused here.

Silicone

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#46

Post by tomohelix »

pkdpic wrote: post #3

> Experiments have shown that microwaving plastic baby food containers available on the shelves of U.S. stores can release huge numbers of plastic particles — in some cases, more than 2 billion nanoplastics and 4 million microplastics for every square centimeter of container. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive — a much higher mortality rate than tha…

A cell culture would die if the water was slightly saltier than regular media. Or the temperature was a few degrees higher, or the gas concentration was off by a few percent, or the shape of the container is weird, or etc. etc.

You need a much more rigorous study to determine toxicity to a full-size living organism. Much more costly and much less likely to get funding...

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#47

Post by userbinator »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #10
productizeme93 wrote: post #2

It's surprising to me how much we don't understand about plastic still. Years ago I was in a kitchen shop with an out of town friend and we saw some Sous Vide equipment. I told her that we had one and that you could either plastic bags or vacuum sealed bags to cook in the water. Her reaction was an immediate "absolutely not." That's when I realized that she worked in a lab that focused on plastics. Her big call out w…

First off, there are silicon sous vide bags. Second… if you are at the level that a bag with meat in it for 2 hours at 140 degrees is too risky… you had better get working on that cabin in the woods.

you had better get working on that cabin in the woods.

...where you use a wood stove and inhale far more proven carcinogens instead?

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#48

Post by opportune »

bordercases wrote: post #41
opportune wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were extremely or noticeably bad for you in the short term, it would be obvious and we would know about it. Generally I assume that I consume microscopic inedible dirt/mineral/etc particles all the time without know it and they most likely pass through my digestive system. I know of course that digestion is complex and that many of these likely are absorbed to varying degrees. I try to not cook with plastic gen…

Why only care about the short term?

I don’t

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#49

Post by NovaDudely »

productizeme93 wrote: post #2

It's surprising to me how much we don't understand about plastic still. Years ago I was in a kitchen shop with an out of town friend and we saw some Sous Vide equipment. I told her that we had one and that you could either plastic bags or vacuum sealed bags to cook in the water. Her reaction was an immediate "absolutely not." That's when I realized that she worked in a lab that focused on plastics. Her big call out w…

The more chemists I have spoken to over the years, the more I hear warnings about polymers in general. Seems as though, that in general structure simply cannot be manufactured in a way that is innocuous to our health.

It is plausible that plastic will be the next tobacco/leaded gasoline. Time will tell however.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#50

Post by ars »

DANmode wrote: post #28

Plastic is made of oils. Oils degrade and/or dissolve with heat.

Plastic is not an oil, not to mention you can make plastic from air and nothing else (other than energy). (You can make plastic from CO2 and Water.)

Plastics are polymers, oils are not. Oils have specific chain lengths, polymers have no specific length. Both are hydrocarbons, but almost everything we interact with is, so that's not saying much.

Saying something degrades with heat means very little - everything degrades with heat. The question is how much heat.

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