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Underwater ears everywhere

computer.rip

41–50 of 179 posts

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#41

>Much more appealing is passive sonar, which works by listening for the sounds naturally created by underwater vehicles. Experts in marine biology. Reminds me of the night vision camera the british military were showing off on BBC Countryfile program. Who would have thought the military are experts in biology, but probably explains why the brits took off sunglasses in Iraq when talking to people, but the US didnt. Yo…

> I read somewhere once that a sensor, sonar or hydrophone, in UK waters could detect the sounds come from a New York harbour, which gives an insight into the distance sounds can travel underwater, but considering all the noises that can be detected, having sound processing abilities, a little bit better than something like Dolby Noise Reduction, is the key part of the underwater arms race. I didn't really get into t…

It is interesting a bit like catching the sound of a distant rave on the wind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#42
post #32

Somewhat tangentially, I've been wondering why the Soviets weren't able to locate K-129. From what I've read, they searched in a location hundreds of miles away from where SOSUS detected an implosion - why didn't the Soviets pick it up? Surely they had a hydrophone array?

Well, one answer is that US hydrophone technology was probably superior at the time - but that's not necessarily a well-established fact, mostly an assumption. Still, it would stand to reason. SOSUS benefited greatly from cutting-edge research into acoustics that Bell Labs had been performing for other reasons, the Soviet Union probably didn't have the hydrophone technology or the undersea cable technology it relied…

[flagged]

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#43
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one answer is that US hydrophone technology was probably superior at the time - but that's not necessarily a well-established fact, mostly an assumption. Still, it would stand to reason. SOSUS benefited greatly from cutting-edge research into acoustics that Bell Labs had been performing for other reasons, the Soviet Union probably didn't have the hydrophone technology or the undersea cable technology it relied…

[flagged]

If you want them to provide sources, just ask nicely.

They made it very clear that these explanations weren't to be taken very seriously and were mostly just interesting to think about. There's not a whole lot of value in enumerating the evidence of a conspiracy theory that isn't worth taking very seriously (in fact, I'd argue it's not very responsible to do so).

And let's just not agonize about whether HN is "becoming Reddit," it's a conversation so overwrought it's discouraged in the guidelines.

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#44

>Much more appealing is passive sonar, which works by listening for the sounds naturally created by underwater vehicles. Experts in marine biology. Reminds me of the night vision camera the british military were showing off on BBC Countryfile program. Who would have thought the military are experts in biology, but probably explains why the brits took off sunglasses in Iraq when talking to people, but the US didnt. Yo…

> I read somewhere once that a sensor, sonar or hydrophone, in UK waters could detect the sounds come from a New York harbour, which gives an insight into the distance sounds can travel underwater, but considering all the noises that can be detected, having sound processing abilities, a little bit better than something like Dolby Noise Reduction, is the key part of the underwater arms race. In a typical attack sumbar…

403 forbidden link with your link but the wayback machine lets me see it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230123071023/https://media.def...

Detecting (background) radiation is the new state of the art and improvements in tech seen in peoples mobile phones.

https://icecube.wisc.edu/news/press-releases/2017/11/first-l...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwKKOPd-5cU

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2...

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one answer is that US hydrophone technology was probably superior at the time - but that's not necessarily a well-established fact, mostly an assumption. Still, it would stand to reason. SOSUS benefited greatly from cutting-edge research into acoustics that Bell Labs had been performing for other reasons, the Soviet Union probably didn't have the hydrophone technology or the undersea cable technology it relied…

[flagged]

When I say that these are conspiracy theories, I guess I'm saying that I don't intend to convince anyone. I mostly just provided them for entertainment value. To my knowledge only the first has ever had widespread interest, and does potentially explain some of the odd circumstances around the loss of the Scorpion and K-129, but it doesn't explain all of them. For example, one of the most materially odd things about K-129 is that it had something like a dozen crew members on board who were not part of the normal compliment, and in some unrelated event the crew manifest was lost, so we don't know who they were. That certainly fits with a general pattern of Soviet behavior, suggesting that there were intelligence officers aboard (besides the routine intelligence officer included as part of standard compliment). But that doesn't mean there was some kind of rogue KGB plot or something as some believe; it's more likely that K-129 had some kind of special but relatively routine intelligence assignment. It could support the idea that the USSR searched in the wrong area to conceal a secret assignment for K-129, perhaps close-range observation of US naval exercises. That makes some good sense in the political context as, both before and after the loss of the K-129, the Soviet Union had been extremely critical of the US and UK for performing close-range submarine surveillance of Soviet exercises---they wouldn't be keen to admit they were doing the same.

But these are all just theories. The evidence doesn't provide an especially conclusive explanation for the loss of K-129 or Scorpion, and it is doubtful that we will ever really know what happened. But there are theories to explain both losses that are more likely than KGB schemes or dramatic events of secret military history. Both may have been lost to malfunctioning torpedoes that armed and detonated in the tube or were even fired and targeted their own ships---both known hazards at the time, and in fact something that the Scorpion had survived once before. There are possible mechanical failures that could have caused either sinking. Extensive investigation of the Scorpion incident lead to design changes in later submarines to address some possible factors in the loss.

This is all good to keep in mind in the case of the Titan. Undersea losses like this happen very dramatically and the evidence is difficult to recover and analyze. We may never have anything but speculation as to the exact failure chain.

One of the reasons these theories exist is because four submarines were lost in 1968. That's a substantial portion of the total noncombat submarine losses ever. It's obviously appealing to come up with some kind of unifying theory, but as far as anyone knows it was just a coincidence.

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#46
An almost mandatory entertaining article, whenever topics about cables, ocean floor, submarines come up:

https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

"Mother Earth, Mother Board" (stories about laying undersea cable and the history of wiring the Earth up"

(or unpaywalled: https://archive.is/ICkHe)

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#47
post #32

Somewhat tangentially, I've been wondering why the Soviets weren't able to locate K-129. From what I've read, they searched in a location hundreds of miles away from where SOSUS detected an implosion - why didn't the Soviets pick it up? Surely they had a hydrophone array?

Well, one answer is that US hydrophone technology was probably superior at the time - but that's not necessarily a well-established fact, mostly an assumption. Still, it would stand to reason. SOSUS benefited greatly from cutting-edge research into acoustics that Bell Labs had been performing for other reasons, the Soviet Union probably didn't have the hydrophone technology or the undersea cable technology it relied…

The book Red Star Rogue by Kenneth Sewell goes in depth on the theory that K-129 sank while on some kind of mission to launch a nuclear weapon.

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#48

On this: > Instead, the battle of submarine silence has mostly revolved around obscure technical problems of fluid dynamics, since one of the loudest noises made by submarines is the cavitation around the screw. I don't know if this is true today, but at least years ago the low-noise design of the screw on modern US submarines was classified, and so the screw was covered by a sheath whenever a submarine was out of th…

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5867831

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of modern journalism is absurd. Originally the rule in journalism was, the first paragraph must contain who, when, what, where, then subsequent paragraphs fill in the details in either chronological or logical order. Now the first paragraph must contain an emotional human-interest style “hook” to rope in the reader, then bury the lede in some random spot in the remainder of the text, in an attempt to keep t…

Condensing inflated long-form articles back to their useful size would be a worthwhile AI application, just like searchable podcast transcriptions.

https://www.boringreport.org/app does that, at least until the IP lawyers figure out what to do with it.

Re: Underwater ears everywhere

#50
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this interact with the norm of commercial vessels responding to distress calls at sea? I know distress calls aren't at all the same as search and rescue, but in some incidents both phases must occur.

Ships nearby responding to a distress call is a matter of expedience rather than good planning - something is better than nothing. But typically once an organization like a coast guard gets involved, they start giving orders to other responding ships, including sending ships away if they aren't needed and adding to the fray. This general concept is called incident command or the incident command system (ICS) after a…

Thanks! I studied ICS as part of a neighborhood emergency response training some years ago, but I don't feel that familiar with it anymore.

So I guess the basic idea is that volunteers should provide aid as they can, but once a response coordination authority is established, the volunteers should either leave the scene or put themselves under that authority's direction? (Including potentially being directed to leave the scene.)

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