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The deindustrialization of Germany

politico.eu

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Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#41

Post by renewiltord »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #4

And obviously the reason is the lack of labour reform and not the billions in handouts currently given by the US and China which the EU refuses to match because of its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour. Ah Politico, such well researched and reasonable journalism, it warms my heart…

Nothing about European markets is undistorted. The most distorted of all is the view that Europe is declining out of some moral stance. The classic example is how California and the US had to go clean up Volkswagen because local regulatory authorities weren't up to snuff.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#42

Post by tvon_g »

huijzer wrote: post #13

I have tried to go against some of the arguments because some are wrong, some are okayish, and some are just plain wrong, but I gave up. The article moves all over the place pulling random facts from all kinds of places in support of the idea that Germany is declining. Maybe that's true, maybe not. This article appears not rigorous enough to come to a right conclusion.

It's directionally correct though, no? What's the case to be made that Germany is ascending? The fact that most German billionaires inherited their wealth is pretty telling I think.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#43

Post by nicbou »

choeger wrote: post #23

Germany is extremely well positioned to rise again economically in the next five years or so. It's attracting migrants from all over Europe, it's located quite nicely in the middle of the continent and it's currently building a massive capacity of renewable energy. The only real problem right now is efficiency of spending. Nearly all public sectors (defense, housing, transportation, education, healthcare) bemoan sign…

I help German immigrants for a living. It's currently one of the hardest countries to settle in due to the archaic and labyrinthine bureaucracy. Berlin's immigration office is completely unable to handle its workload, delaying immigration to the point people just give up and leave.

I've been here long enough to apply for citizenship, but Berlin has a backlog of 26,000 applications and literally refuses new ones until they centralise the processing. The new central office is expected to handle 20,000 applications per year.

This is the city where you need an in-person appointment weeks in the future to register your address, a key process that many other things depend on.

All of this can only be done in German, of course.

If Germany wants to attract talent, it has to meet it in the 21st century.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#45

Post by jcfrei »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #29
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #4

And obviously the reason is the lack of labour reform and not the billions in handouts currently given by the US and China which the EU refuses to match because of its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour. Ah Politico, such well researched and reasonable journalism, it warms my heart…

> because its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour The issue lies in the fact that the EU is comprised of numerous countries within a single market. When one nation begins to subsidize a company or an entire sector, the other nations are left powerless, merely watching their own companies struggle to compete against those bolstered by government subsidies. It becomes a game of pouring govern…

The US is attracting so many companies currently because they are giving out the largest government subsidies. It's nice that you're advocating for more free markets but governments are moving in another direction. And either a country can match those subsidies or they will see their industry relocate to another one.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#46

Post by holoduke »

eldaisfish wrote: post #39
choeger wrote: post #23

Germany is extremely well positioned to rise again economically in the next five years or so. It's attracting migrants from all over Europe, it's located quite nicely in the middle of the continent and it's currently building a massive capacity of renewable energy. The only real problem right now is efficiency of spending. Nearly all public sectors (defense, housing, transportation, education, healthcare) bemoan sign…

i would not be so hopeful. A big problem is that germany does not operate in the global lingua franca - English. This really shows when countries like Australia and Canada - combined, both have a population less than germany’s - are able to attract the best and brightest from around the world. Another problem is one that plagues all old world countries - societies are based around ethnicity. These combine to mean tha…

Eastern European people are very much german orientated. Most speak better German than English. So no you are not right. Germany is immensively popular by tech migrants from Russia. Poland, Hungary, Czech etc.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#47

Post by tdrz »

I found the article quite good but has missed a couple of points that need to be mentioned:

1. The attitude of the average German consumer

It seems to me that one of the national sports in Germany is to find cheaper deals for pretty much anything (and then brag about it). Even if it's fractions of a euro! After trimming down on everything that they could, the manufacturers and service providers had to finally reduce quality. This happened to such an extent that the famous "Made in Germany" is now meaningless, if not worse.

2. The attitude of the average German manager

"I am your boss, you are the employee, now shut up and do as I say" attitude does not work well in knowledge-based industries like Software. And I believe this is one of the reasons why Germany is behind in digitalization, let alone in digital innovation.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#48

Post by Archelaos »

tvon_g wrote: post #42
huijzer wrote: post #13

I have tried to go against some of the arguments because some are wrong, some are okayish, and some are just plain wrong, but I gave up. The article moves all over the place pulling random facts from all kinds of places in support of the idea that Germany is declining. Maybe that's true, maybe not. This article appears not rigorous enough to come to a right conclusion.

It's directionally correct though, no? What's the case to be made that Germany is ascending? The fact that most German billionaires inherited their wealth is pretty telling I think.

It shows that inheritance tax in Germany is too low and that unfortunately there is no longer a wealth tax.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#49

Post by woobar »

novaRom wrote: post #40

quote: Germany ranks only eighth in the Global Innovation Index Is it so bad? For 83 millions people economy.

Considering that Switzerland is No. 1, Sweden, Netherlands or Singapore are all above Germany, I'd guess population is not a big factor in computing this index.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#50

Post by kachurovskiy »

We're definitely huge fans of paperwork here and it hurts a lot.

Want to sell something? Company registration takes months, just getting a business tax ID was 6 weeks for me. To sell electronics, register with Stiftung EAR, then find an intermediary to get you a WEEE-Nummer and report monthly (!) sales figures of all your device types. Just that registration costs 1k and 8 weeks. And don't forget your battery and packaging license!

By comparison, similar WEEE fees in UK are 30 pounds and in Estonia are 12 euros, no wait.

But the real fun starts if you hire someone :) The paperwork there is a magnitude more.

I don't think we're doomed though. The schools are packed with kids, education is free and good, health services are not a concern (looking at you, US), society is healthy. I think we'll manage :) Hopefully no more self-inflicted energy crises in the works.

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