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How blind photographers visualize the world

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Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#41

Post by vidarh »

lacrimacida wrote: post #11
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel w…

I tend to skip descriptive imagery, and prefer books that give more play to ideas.

I've also written two novels (self-published sci-fi) and one of the "benefits" of self-publishing was that I got to make the commercially stupid (but it's not like self-published niche sci fi would ever sell all that much; if I was writing for the money I'd write something more commercial and submit it to a trad publisher) decision of ignoring my editor when she made "suggestions" about the amount of exposition.

She was right to raise it. There's "too much". I know there is, and it's there because I that is what I love reading. But I suspect that is in large part exactly because without seeing images when I read less abstract parts of the books, I'm not used to the world building etc. taking "time away" from the visuals because they don't to me.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#42

Post by vidarh »

tiborsaas wrote: post #29
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

I'm confused, I can "visualize" images in my head, memories or new things both. I know how everything fits together, I can have this "image" even with my eyes open. I can draw them, recall details and context. However, when I close my eyes I see dark perlin noise and nothing else. So maybe it is figure of speech? Here's a visual test, but before clicking just imagine a red five-pointed star: https://curingaphantasia.…

I'm firmly a 1.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#43

Post by vidarh »

irrational wrote: post #38
enugu wrote: post #2

There is also this recently discovered phenomena of aphantasia which is fascinating. Lot of people dont have mental images and grow up not even aware that others can form such images. Here's one interesting account. https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A...

I wonder how many things like this there are. I have two that I am aware of. Musical anhedonia (a neurological condition characterized by an inability to derive pleasure from music) and I never dream while sleeping (I’ve never heard a name for this). In this case though, I am aware that others do have an emotional response to music and that others do dream while sleeping.

Having entirely non-verbal thoughts is another one that tends to freak those of us who incessant monologues out. Some both don't think verbally and have aphantasia.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#44

Post by lacrimacida »

tapper wrote: post #18
lacrimacida wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you describe into words how your mind works, how imagery is rendered in your mind’s eye and how you perceive the world around you? Also, do you have a mind’s eye like non aphantasiacs do? I suspect not all blind people perceive the world in the same way just like the non blind.

OK here goes. Pleas don't mind the spelling. I was born with glaucoma and had both my eyes removed when I was 2.5 years old. I cant remember being able to see, but I can remember wearing verry thick glasses. They made my nose ake. I cant remember what things look like or cullers. If someone asked me to think about something like a beach I would think about how it would feel under my hands - feet to be on the sand, th…

I feel very similarly when I have my eyes closed, I imagine things and objects but I see blackness. Hard to put into words but it’s like I feel it, be it shapes or colors.

How do you like reading very descriptive passages? I have a hard time conjuring up and connecting to a scene that has too many details, but my blind imagination doesn’t fail to feel any gaps for things more open ended.

I imagine there are different perception modes for various blind folks and that there’s a lot of variety in it as well.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#45

Post by lacrimacida »

vidarh wrote: post #41
lacrimacida wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel w…

I tend to skip descriptive imagery, and prefer books that give more play to ideas. I've also written two novels (self-published sci-fi) and one of the "benefits" of self-publishing was that I got to make the commercially stupid (but it's not like self-published niche sci fi would ever sell all that much; if I was writing for the money I'd write something more commercial and submit it to a trad publisher) decision of…

Yeah, with more open ended descriptions my blind imagination has no problem filling out any gaps. When I was younger I was frustrated and kept at it but to no avail. When I found out there was a time writers were paid per words / volume I became very selective in what I read. If it didn’t jive I’d skip. If the whole book was like that I’d skip entirely.

As a writer you should be true to yourself with the downside that your work would only cater to likeminded people and aside from not having larger audiences I see no probelm in that. Trying to be something you’re not is not fruitful

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#46

Post by causi »

godshatter wrote: post #31
causi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also wondering if aphantasiacs have trouble with imagining voices, sounds, music. Do they ever get songs stuck in their head?

This stuff is hard to describe. I can't visualize, and I can't hear a monologue in my head. I do have a monologue in my head, to some degree, but I don't actually hear anything. I just know it's going on and what's being said. Same with earworms. I hear songs in my head as if they are vibrating through a door down a long corridor or something. It can be just as annoying and just as hard to get rid of, though. As for…

Can you do visual hypotheticals? Like if I asked you to, say, imagine an apple with black and white zebra-striped skin, could you tell me if it would look appetizing or not? If asked to imagine a crocodile wearing a wig, could you tell me what hairstyle the wig has?

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#47

Post by vidarh »

lacrimacida wrote: post #45
vidarh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to skip descriptive imagery, and prefer books that give more play to ideas. I've also written two novels (self-published sci-fi) and one of the "benefits" of self-publishing was that I got to make the commercially stupid (but it's not like self-published niche sci fi would ever sell all that much; if I was writing for the money I'd write something more commercial and submit it to a trad publisher) decision of…

Yeah, with more open ended descriptions my blind imagination has no problem filling out any gaps. When I was younger I was frustrated and kept at it but to no avail. When I found out there was a time writers were paid per words / volume I became very selective in what I read. If it didn’t jive I’d skip. If the whole book was like that I’d skip entirely. As a writer you should be true to yourself with the downside tha…

Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and write mostly because I enjoy it, and it's liberating to not have to listen (though sometimes it's worth thinking through of it's because of preference or ego).

I can't imagine trying to make a living from it - it's an incredibly tough business.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#48

Post by onemoresoop »

vidarh wrote: post #47
lacrimacida wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, with more open ended descriptions my blind imagination has no problem filling out any gaps. When I was younger I was frustrated and kept at it but to no avail. When I found out there was a time writers were paid per words / volume I became very selective in what I read. If it didn’t jive I’d skip. If the whole book was like that I’d skip entirely. As a writer you should be true to yourself with the downside tha…

Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and write mostly because I enjoy it, and it's liberating to not have to listen (though sometimes it's worth thinking through of it's because of preference or ego). I can't imagine trying to make a living from it - it's an incredibly tough business.

You don't need to make living from it but you can live through it. Best way to develop yourself into the person you're supposed to be. Once money comes into the picture it messes everything up.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#49

Post by godshatter »

causi wrote: post #46
godshatter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is hard to describe. I can't visualize, and I can't hear a monologue in my head. I do have a monologue in my head, to some degree, but I don't actually hear anything. I just know it's going on and what's being said. Same with earworms. I hear songs in my head as if they are vibrating through a door down a long corridor or something. It can be just as annoying and just as hard to get rid of, though. As for…

Can you do visual hypotheticals? Like if I asked you to, say, imagine an apple with black and white zebra-striped skin, could you tell me if it would look appetizing or not? If asked to imagine a crocodile wearing a wig, could you tell me what hairstyle the wig has?

I can't really tell in either case. I can't see the apple, but it would depend on just how the zebra stripes look whether I would find it tasty or not. I can think of the idea of it, but not the details. As for the crocodile wearing a wig, that's literally what I think. "A crocodile wearing a wig". No visual. If I had to draw it I'd have to figure that out. The typical "think of a beach" turns into a quick one liner I'd give an artist to work from ("sunset on a beach with someone walking along the water line" or whatever).
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