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OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

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Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#41

Post by delfinom »

DannyBee wrote: post #31
t0mas88 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the code is Apache licensed, so you can use that code. Putting a file somewhere that states "you agree to X by using the software" without you signing anything isn't an enforceable contract. If they want you to agree to something it needs to be (e-)signed. Not just stating an action and claiming that by doing that you agree to a contract.

Actually, this is totally wrong, at least in the US. They can't bind you for doing nothing (opening a package for example). They can bind you if you get the benefit of the bargain, which you would by using the software.

There was a Samsung court case in recent times they lost over this btw. They argued users were bound to arbitration due to the EULA piece of paper in the box. The court ruled against Samsung because Samsung could not reasonably prove a user read this piece of paper in a box even though they were using the phone that was packaged. The court explained the Samsung phones would have to prompt the EULA to have active acceptance.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#42

Post by hoistbypetard »

The source code is still apache2 licensed, according to the README[1]. That says

> Some builds of stable ownCloud Infinite Scale releases provided by ownCloud GmbH are subject to an End User License Agreement.

That seems to be exactly the kind of thing that the apache2 license permits.

[1](https://github.com/owncloud/ocis/tree/master)

It also only seems sensible... if you're offering something like OwnCloud as SaaS, you should probably know enough about it to do your own builds from source.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#43

Post by KronisLV »

jasonjayr wrote: post #25

> Commercial Use means corporate use intended for commercial advantage, monetary compensation or profit-making, including but not limited to e.g. offering ownCloud Infinite Scale based software-as-a-service (SaaS), platform-as-a-service (PaaS) or any other types of hosted services to a third party. Whereas scenarios in which such a commercial advantage is intended to be realized indirectly by leveraging ownCloud Infi…

> basically an Anti-AWS clause to protect against the ElasticSearch/OpenSearch thing.

I wonder what the best license would be for the projects that want something like this?

I mean SSPL got a lot of flak. Something like BSL was regarded more positively, but also was meant for a slightly different use case.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#44

Post by hoistbypetard »

Canada wrote: post #22
sneak wrote: post #16

So, no longer open source? Do they own copyright to all of the code that allows them to relicense it like that?

They have required contributors to actually sign a CLA since the beginning, so yeah, they do own the copyright.

According to the README[1] on their source repository, that is, flatly, untrue.

They say:

> We are very happy that oCIS does not require a Contributor License Agreement (CLA) as it is Apache 2.0 licensed. We hope this will make it easier to contribute code. If you want to get in touch, most of the developers hang out in our rocket chat channel or reach out to the ownCloud central forum.

They also say:

> Some builds of stable ownCloud Infinite Scale releases provided by ownCloud GmbH are subject to an End User License Agreement.

Which seems both reasonable and sensible...

[1](https://github.com/owncloud/ocis/tree/master)

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#45

Post by hoistbypetard »

sneak wrote: post #16

So, no longer open source? Do they own copyright to all of the code that allows them to relicense it like that?

Still open source, still Apache 2. They're applying this EULA to "Some builds of stable ownCloud Infinite Scale releases provided by ownCloud GmbH" which is something you can do with any Apache 2-licensed software.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#46

Post by pdoub »

dragooc wrote: post #39

With this PR https://github.com/owncloud/ocis/pull/6755 I tried to make the policy a bit more clear after we got a nice issue report about it. To be clear: only binary builds of stable versions of Infinite Scale that the ownCloud company is shipping are protected by the EULA. The source code license is Apache2 or AGPL for some parts, and is not touched by this of course. The EULA even allows free use widely, includin…

`It does not allow hosting.` as in "you are not allowed to provide others with oCIS instances and ask them to pay for it"?

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#47

Post by gtirloni »

KronisLV wrote: post #43
jasonjayr wrote: post #25

> Commercial Use means corporate use intended for commercial advantage, monetary compensation or profit-making, including but not limited to e.g. offering ownCloud Infinite Scale based software-as-a-service (SaaS), platform-as-a-service (PaaS) or any other types of hosted services to a third party. Whereas scenarios in which such a commercial advantage is intended to be realized indirectly by leveraging ownCloud Infi…

> basically an Anti-AWS clause to protect against the ElasticSearch/OpenSearch thing. I wonder what the best license would be for the projects that want something like this? I mean SSPL got a lot of flak. Something like BSL was regarded more positively, but also was meant for a slightly different use case.

> I wonder what the best license would be for the projects that want something like this?

A traditional license for proprietary code would fit well.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#48

Post by SamuelAdams »

KronisLV wrote: post #43
jasonjayr wrote: post #25

> Commercial Use means corporate use intended for commercial advantage, monetary compensation or profit-making, including but not limited to e.g. offering ownCloud Infinite Scale based software-as-a-service (SaaS), platform-as-a-service (PaaS) or any other types of hosted services to a third party. Whereas scenarios in which such a commercial advantage is intended to be realized indirectly by leveraging ownCloud Infi…

> basically an Anti-AWS clause to protect against the ElasticSearch/OpenSearch thing. I wonder what the best license would be for the projects that want something like this? I mean SSPL got a lot of flak. Something like BSL was regarded more positively, but also was meant for a slightly different use case.

For a while I thought it was AGPL, but after reading it it looks like there are no provisions against using the code for commercial purposes, only that if source code is used, the modified source code must also be made available to the public.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#49

Post by chaosite »

jxdxbx wrote: post #32
Y_Y wrote: post #2

> "By installing, copying or otherwise using ... you agree to be bound by ... " Why do people keep writing shit like this. Whoever wrote that EULA no doubt has an understanding of contract law and knows that you can't just unilaterally bind someone into an agreement like that. I know it's classic EULA nonsense, but it still bugs me how you can just write whatever and hope people naively take your word on it.

A “license” is legal permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal, such as copy software (assuming there’s no fair use etc), or even attend a concert. Licenses are often granted as part of contracts, but need not be. Unilateral license conditions are not binding contacts, but not following them can still be unlawful. If a movie theater breaks a license term by for example playing a movie publicly withou…

Unless that movie theater entered into a contract with a distributor, right?

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#50

Post by dragooc »

pdoub wrote: post #46
dragooc wrote: post #39

With this PR https://github.com/owncloud/ocis/pull/6755 I tried to make the policy a bit more clear after we got a nice issue report about it. To be clear: only binary builds of stable versions of Infinite Scale that the ownCloud company is shipping are protected by the EULA. The source code license is Apache2 or AGPL for some parts, and is not touched by this of course. The EULA even allows free use widely, includin…

`It does not allow hosting.` as in "you are not allowed to provide others with oCIS instances and ask them to pay for it"?

right, this is not allowed by the EULA of the binaries released by ownCloud GmbH.
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