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Escaping High School

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Re: Escaping High School

#41

Post by teeray »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #11
op00to wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Are you suggesting children should be working?

As I read the parent's point, I think he is advocating for kids seeing their parents work more often. As it is, kids in US don't experience the reality often. More than that, parents shield them from the reality as long as it is possible, because the reality mostly sucks. I would think of it as 'take your kids to work', but more often. I am not a big fan. I was coming to my dad's car shop after school and I can't hon…

> I would think of it as 'take your kids to work', but more often.

I think these were called apprenticeships at one time

Re: Escaping High School

#42

Post by tallanvor »

"Maybe you go to a school in a poor area, or with a lot of violence ... I don’t know enough to say what the best tactics are for these cases, but I have a few theories."

This pretty much says it all right here. The author comes from an incredibly privileged background and clearly believes they are smarter than people who have spent their lives studying education.

How we educate children isn't a perfect system, but educators really are trying to teach important information to all students, including figuring out ways to reach children with very different learning styles, and are stuck balancing what's important with the crap forced on them by legislatures, parents, and (hopefully) well-meaning people like the author.

Re: Escaping High School

#43

Post by aidenn0 »

hardware2win wrote: post #5

Pretty decent collection of reasonable advices Especially this: Make sure you aren’t just doing a glorified version of trying to earn good grades. So many people failed on this, mostly because of parents. Dont put effort just for the sake of grades, they are worthless. Just small nitpick to #1 Learning just in time =/= learning via practice Learning just in case, the opposite of JIT makes sense too, but is "unpredict…

> Learning just in case, the opposite of JIT makes sense too, but is "unpredictably effective" - the stuff you learned may be needed and put you ahead, but may not.

This is also a place to tailor things. If you are particularly good at learning ahead of time, then you can learn a lot of things "just in case" at a low cost, increasing the chances that something you learned is useful.

If you aren't especially good at it, then you're going to have much lower chances and JIT learning makes sense for all the reasons in TFA

> Dont put effort just for the sake of grades, they are worthless.

I'd like everyone who makes this claim to try submitting resumes of a fresh college graduate with a low C average to a dozen companies and see if even a single one of them calls back.

Grades are a means to an end, which is different than being worthless.

Re: Escaping High School

#44

Post by lordnacho »

bell-cot wrote: post #16
FoomFries wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think that what college offers is more than an increase in salary. For hyperbole’s sake, you could use the argument of ‘my trust fund is already paying me more than your median graduate’s full-time job’ and most would roll their eyes at such a statement.

Try talking to someone who's worked a few decades as a Development Officer at a major university. Would they want their institution to be associated with Mr. "I will never need to actually work" Trust Fundee? Or with a real-world proven entrepreneur & business management prodigy?

Is that the choice though? It's more likely that you have to choose 100 people among 30 trust funders, 2 business prodigies, and 200 ordinary people.

Re: Escaping High School

#45

Post by hardware2win »

aidenn0 wrote: post #43
hardware2win wrote: post #5

Pretty decent collection of reasonable advices Especially this: Make sure you aren’t just doing a glorified version of trying to earn good grades. So many people failed on this, mostly because of parents. Dont put effort just for the sake of grades, they are worthless. Just small nitpick to #1 Learning just in time =/= learning via practice Learning just in case, the opposite of JIT makes sense too, but is "unpredict…

> Learning just in case, the opposite of JIT makes sense too, but is "unpredictably effective" - the stuff you learned may be needed and put you ahead, but may not. This is also a place to tailor things. If you are particularly good at learning ahead of time, then you can learn a lot of things "just in case" at a low cost, increasing the chances that something you learned is useful. If you aren't especially good at i…

>I'd like everyone who makes this claim to try submitting resumes of a fresh college graduate with a lo

Even better - Ive found my first software job during 1st year and nobody asked me about grades, but this is not US.

Learn your stuff, have interesting stuff in CV and it should be doable, right?

Re: Escaping High School

#46

Post by ModernMech »

tallanvor wrote: post #42

"Maybe you go to a school in a poor area, or with a lot of violence ... I don’t know enough to say what the best tactics are for these cases, but I have a few theories." This pretty much says it all right here. The author comes from an incredibly privileged background and clearly believes they are smarter than people who have spent their lives studying education. How we educate children isn't a perfect system, but ed…

Yes, don't we all hate it when people come into our job and tell us how to do it?

Parents love to think that because they have had one child (or maybe a couple), they know how to educate children writ large. Compounding that, most people went through the education system as students, so they believe they have insider knowledge as to how the system works. Usually their advice on how to fix the system is geared toward fixing the frustrations they personally felt as a student.

In reality, most people are only exposed to the education system as consumers, and therefore know next to nothing about how it actually works. Doesn't stop them from spouting off what they think they know on internet forums and blogs though. They enjoy pointing out what they see as problems, and are happy to offer quick fixes born in ignorance that have either already been tried and don't work, or don't solve the problem for reasons obvious to people currently working on it. Or better yet, the supposed problem isn't one at all, but a boogeyman that politicians are currently pushing to scare voters.

If you want to fix education, get into the mix and actually help. Sitting on the sidelines complaining isn't helping anyone. If your perspective about the education system is along the lines of "people who can't, teach", as seems to be in vogue these days, then you're really part of the problem.

Re: Escaping High School

#47

Post by fn-mote »

tl;dr - only read the intro

> by the time you’re in your mid-teens, you’re probably as smart as you’re going to be – not as worldly or wise as you will be later, but the raw brainpower is mostly there. So you’ve got a four-year chunk during which you’re smart enough to learn anything a novice adult version of you could;

1. This presuppoess that "smart" is the essential ingredient for success. How about maturity/self-discipline? There is no way a 14 year old has the maturity of an 18 year old to deal with learning or doing difficult things.

2. IME a very significant problem that teens have learning is the "fixed mindset". When they are unable to do something right away, especially if they observe their peers can, most don't know how to put in the work to improve. In fact, they behave as if they cannot improve. Concealing one's inability to do something is very common.

The author does bring this up in "4F" but I don't feel like it addresses the problem very well. It postulates an ideal student who will connect with someone who is more motivated than them, but then not just ride their coattails. I don't even see that in the business world.

Re: Escaping High School

#48

Post by fn-mote »

ModernMech wrote: post #46
tallanvor wrote: post #42

"Maybe you go to a school in a poor area, or with a lot of violence ... I don’t know enough to say what the best tactics are for these cases, but I have a few theories." This pretty much says it all right here. The author comes from an incredibly privileged background and clearly believes they are smarter than people who have spent their lives studying education. How we educate children isn't a perfect system, but ed…

Yes, don't we all hate it when people come into our job and tell us how to do it? Parents love to think that because they have had one child (or maybe a couple), they know how to educate children writ large. Compounding that, most people went through the education system as students, so they believe they have insider knowledge as to how the system works. Usually their advice on how to fix the system is geared toward…

> Yes, don't we all hate it when people come into our job and tell us how to do it?

I read this and was expecting /s but apparently not.

Please address something concrete! In the US, there are significant problems with the educational system. It's ok to write a theoretical piece thinking about ways to do things differently.

The author has some good ideas that do not deserve to be dismissed lightly. They can even be applied within an existing educational system. Examples that I think should resonate on HN:

- 1C: Produce Instead Of Consuming

- 1D: Do Real Things, Not Fake Things

Re: Escaping High School

#49

Post by ModernMech »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #29
ameister14 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dont put effort just for the sake of grades, they are worthless. They aren't worthless. Grades make it easier and cheaper for you to go to college. Good grades in college make it far, far easier to get jobs and can get you in the door to significantly better and higher paying jobs or grad school. So not worthless, just not the be all and end all.

It is almost certainly not worth your time to try to be in the top 10 in your class. Nearly everyone is much better off doing other things with their time than studying to try to get an elite college for a good deal. There's little evidence that where you go to school matters. If you take Albert Einstein and you put him in a community college, he's still going to be Albert Einstein, and you're still going to just be…

It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you have the requisite skill and persistence to be in the top 10 in the class, you probably don't need to be in the top 10. But if you have that skill and you don't use it to be in the top 10, what are you doing instead? It better be something good, because competing against other highly motivated and skilled peers for a top 10 spot builds a lot of character and fortitude. Top 10 in my class are the best of the best. No one is sneaking in there.

Re: Escaping High School

#50

Post by willcipriano »

tallanvor wrote: post #42

"Maybe you go to a school in a poor area, or with a lot of violence ... I don’t know enough to say what the best tactics are for these cases, but I have a few theories." This pretty much says it all right here. The author comes from an incredibly privileged background and clearly believes they are smarter than people who have spent their lives studying education. How we educate children isn't a perfect system, but ed…

If the "people who have spent their lives studying education" are using learning styles it isn't hard to be smarter than them, it has been roundly debunked.

https://www.educationnext.org/stubborn-myth-learning-styles-...

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