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France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

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Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

andy_ppp wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> #ACAB At least for me, this comment loses its thrust with this hashtag. It takes a potent observation and adds unnecessary partisanship. It's also connected with the mother of all blowback slogans: defund the police.

My experience with the police has been universally terrible. They think they are above the law and trusting them to do the right thing or “tell the truth and you’ll be fine” is extremely bad advice. Get a lawyer and be very careful around these people is my more nuanced take on them. Edit: I commented before you made your answer more nuanced so I’ve changed mine too.

> You probably don’t have much experience with the police, would be my guess

It's a bad guess.

EDIT: Police in America have a "thin blue line" problem of reflexively defending peers' mistakes. Their cultures look disturbingly similar to gangs, though I don't think that's intentional--they're better described as fraternities with guns. (Which also describes gangs. Convergence.)

That said, new recruits aren't corrupt. And most cops are trying to do the right thing. More fundamentally: most Americans want a police force, and when the police stop working, the most proximate token is torched.

So yes, I get the drive behind the slogan. But it's counterproductive to a ridiculous degree. And it's nowhere proximate to a solution. On HN, I figure we can do better.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#43

Post by noisy_boy »

hinata08 wrote: post #34

I regret getting a pixel, and not a fairphone with a removable battery With the current level of oversight on the police (police of police is a meme by now), and the level of cybersecurity at the government, everyone's phones will be activated within a few months. At least some government agent will have fun watching what ppl visit on the internet during their spare time, and can enable the camera to watch what they'…

Who knows if Framework[0] survive long enough, they might create a phone with choices like GrapheneOS[1] etc. Their 16" laptop reminds me of Project Ara[2].

[0]: https://frame.work/

[1]: https://grapheneos.org/

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#44

Post by brobdingnagians »

hammock wrote: post #20
_kbh_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what tech does this even use? Do they mean using Pegasus or similar malware that the govt has to first get onto the suspect's devices, or is this via Google/Apple or the device manufacturers that makes 'remotely and secretly activating a microphone' even possible? It would have to be after compromise, which would mean its likely only used on a very small number of cases due to the sensitivity and cost of the techno…

Is it expensive to compromise a phone? Is it sensitive to compromise a phone, now that there is a national law allowing it, passed through a democratic process?

This might be quibbling but true democratic process could be interpreted as direct democracy where the law is directly voted for and people give a specific assent to the law (which ancient Athens did do). This is more of a democratic republic where officials elected through democratic process then make decisions, which usually works more smoothly than a pure democracy, but it does mean that the population at large does not necessarily support this specific law (though they might).

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#47

Post by briandon »

flenserboy wrote: post #18

Physical switches are necessary on devices.

And easily physically removable batteries, which used to be the norm and are still available for some devices (like the Nokia C30).

It isn't mere coincidence that device manufacturers have made it impossible to power off mobile phones (short of refusing to charge a device) and impossible to positively disconnect ripe-for-abuse subsystems like the microphone(s) or cameras at the same time that governments and other entities are using them as tracking devices.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#49

Post by rtkwe »

hinata08 wrote: post #34

I regret getting a pixel, and not a fairphone with a removable battery With the current level of oversight on the police (police of police is a meme by now), and the level of cybersecurity at the government, everyone's phones will be activated within a few months. At least some government agent will have fun watching what ppl visit on the internet during their spare time, and can enable the camera to watch what they'…

There's always the faraday bag or simply not taking it to your meeting/activity that have been the recommended options for opsec even when phones had removable batteries.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#50

Post by boeingUH60 »

input_sh wrote: post #25
rythmshifter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying all cops are anything is exactly the same thing as saying all blacks are thieves, all Jews are greedy, or any of the other blanket statements that can never apply to any large group of people. It’s disgusting.

Absolutely not. It's a profession, every cop out there can just... not be a cop. Comparing that to skin color or someone's ethnicity is absolutely ridiculous.

Technically speaking, all cops can’t be bad, so the phrase is pretty dumb anyways even if one has issues with their country’s policing system.
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