When is this from? A few days ago (when it was already posted with a different url) or earlier in the year Februaryish when Doctorow wrote his stuff on enshittification of TikTok etc? Is this actually new?
Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
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Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#42[flagged]
Would you explain why the XKCD was like this as well? Or provide some examples please?
Back in the day it was a comic about a guy wearing a fedora who made overly smart quips about everything, and there were some rather embarrassing comics where the author pined over a woman named Megan in a way that made it seem like he was either an incel or not over his ex.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#43Funny timing, as I just described Duolingo's recent trajectory as being an example of "enshittification" to someone who was angry that they have to do even more "quests" this month than any previous one, to earn the monthly badge (merely a fun thing on your profile to look back on). Gotta drive that engagement and keep users in-app as long as possible...
This seems like a weirdly trivial thing to categorize as enshittification. It's just a vanity badge, not a core component of the app experience.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#44I've been thinking about how enshittification, venture capital, shareholders and the life cycle of a company are in some ways related. Any company that has external investors is bound to go through this cycle of
- building a great product
- taking in external funding money
- growing and then either being acquired or going public (or more commonly shutting down)
- then all the head scratching decision making starts
It's head scratching to users and outside observers, but the incentives are such that there is pressure to grow on a quarterly basis, get those charts looking good and individuals in the management chain are doing what they can to optimize their career growth leading to short term decision making at the cost of users and customers.
The big picture thinking and long term decision making are incredibly hard. Very few companies are able to do this over the long term. Micosoft and apple are doing great currently and it will be interesting to see how stripe and openai navigate this process.
My current opinion is that only small founder owned companies or foss organizations can avoid this trap over the long term and it involves not trying to squeeze out every last bit of value. Both of these require a certain level of financial security + there's the opportunity cost vs just going the vc route.
VC funding is incredibly valuable and it opens up a lot of possibilities that small orgs can never hope for. I guess what I'm saying is: expect enshittification and enjoy the ride while it lasts and then jump ship when trouble starts. Jumping ship becomes incredibly hard with network effects, so that's the challenge we are seeing with social media companies now. Also once companies become too big to fail, it's a drag on society.
Personally I would still go the VC route since I don't have a few million lying around and tell myself this is just the cycle of life (for corporates) to avoid existential questions and going down the rabbit hole of questioning everything around me. Sorry about the disconnected thoughts.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Value engineering is the art of making almost the same thing, but cheaper. That could be it. See also: muntzing.
TIL about Muntzing. From the Wikipedia page about the practice [1]: > he reduced his costs and increased his profits at the expense of poorer performance [...] so the Muntz TVs were adequate for a very large fraction of his customers. And for those [...] where the Muntz TVs did not work, those could be returned at the customer's additional effort and expense, and not Muntz's. He focused less resources in the product…
> "when he felt that one of his builders was overengineering a circuit, he would begin snipping out some of the electronics components."
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#46[flagged]
I'm wondering what's the word for what you're doing edgy internet guy.
Expert advice. This is very important information to know if you run an Internet forum, social media site, gaming convention, etc, anything where a lot of guys show up who call women "females" in conversation.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#47I espouse a belief that apps have two cycles, one of growth, another of exploitation. In the first, cash is burnt/used to give free goodies and provide good quality services. Rents are a byproduct and not a goal during this phase of the operation, the goal here is to build goodwill and market share through measures that the competition can't match. All in all, it is a good experience to use the service during this st…
Great comment, I can fill in some of your references. The Essay you were referring to is the brilliant "The Gervais Principle" https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... Reforge talks about your cycle - I can't find the exact artcile but you can see it with marketplaces a lot - i.e. Facebook creates APIs for events, 3rd parties build platforms on these APIs, Facebook kills the API access. This is…
I think the article you refer to is this one: https://www.reforge.com/blog/balancing-user-vs-business
It looks like an interesting read about what this decision looks like from the other side.
Thank you for introducing me to reforge, I know what I'll be doing with tomorrow's downtime now.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#48Any chance we could get the link pointed to the source[1] rather than this podcast aggregator?
1. https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/co...
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#49There is a possibly more general phenomenon where a brand gets good reputation and then begins cutting cost and people will still buy at the high price. I don't know if that one has a name or if it's the same concept as enshittification.
Is this a product of the way modern MBAs are taught? Seems to be a standard playbook of building reputation, scaling and then aggressive optimisation and cost cutting.
Re: Cory Doctorow: Platform Capitalism and the Curse of “Enshittification” [audio]
#50Funny timing, as I just described Duolingo's recent trajectory as being an example of "enshittification" to someone who was angry that they have to do even more "quests" this month than any previous one, to earn the monthly badge (merely a fun thing on your profile to look back on). Gotta drive that engagement and keep users in-app as long as possible...
If someone gets angry about a badge in an app, it seems like they have a deeper issue to deal with.
If badges motivated learners to do things that benefited them, but now (they feel) badges motivate behavior that benefits the app maker more instead … that would be a clear example of enshittification.
Rule 34 needs a twin:
Anything can be useful.
Therefore, anything can be enshittified. And will be.
Period dot period. QED. I have spoken.