> I noticed some of my friends spent increasing time consuming reality TV, experimenting with drugs, or partying.
Isn't that just describing college students everywhere?
Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
41–50 of 145 posts
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#42It's not clear to me that Ivy Leaguers (or elites in general) do this any more or less than anyone else. I'd rather turn the question around: Why is it that some people thrive?
I feel like I've been very lucky in life. I've gotten to work on interesting and important stuff, I've enjoyed the work, and I'm genuinely looking foward to the future. But if a younger person asked me for life advice, I don't know what I would say. It's obvious that I couldn't teach anyone to do exactly what I did, and doing exactly what someone else did isn't how the world works anyway. The intersection of what you want to do and what the world needs from you can be so random.
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#43A large portion of the student body at every American college is "drowning themselves in pleasure and mindlessness". The simple, naturalistic explanation is that when Harvard students abandon themselves to partying and procrastination, it is for the same reason that students at Boston University or Colorado State do it: i.e., they're young, horny, and on the loose for the first time in life, and their mental circuitry for self-regulation isn't fully wired up yet. But this account does not satisfy the Harvard man, who is at pains to distinguish his habits of procrastinton as themselves the mark of a Harvard man, a proof of belonging to an elite order.
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#44In my experience with my interns, many of whom graduated from Harvard like me, some students at all universities suffer from burnout from their strenuous childhoods. So I sympathize that some kids need to chill a little. I wouldn’t call it self sabotage, but I understand the author is just trying to understand their classmates better. I’m not sure if a cry for help / agitating at the university will matter. I’m not s…
For me it was that my ADHD was well managed in the highly structured confines of my parental-supervised public education. Once I was put into a dorm by myself for the first time in my life and simultaneously stripped of the structure I previously depended on, I failed almost predictably. In my adult life, covid or forced working from home, has lead to the same trouble. It's hard to consistently achieve when I am by myself and can't latch onto other people's habits. Perhaps I am a parasite of humanity, but I try my best.
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#45Some are born with goals, some find their own goals, and some have goals thrust upon them. Being a smart kid can be hard. Parents, teachers and peers see that mythical attribute "potential" and push you in directions to reach it. Get A's in school? Gotta be a doctor or lawyer. (OK, that ages me, today they'd be pushing for programmer.) Graduating college with a degree you never wanted must be depressing for the perso…
I love 12th night!
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#46A large portion of the student body at every American college is "drowning themselves in pleasure and mindlessness". The simple, naturalistic explanation is that when Harvard students abandon themselves to partying and procrastination, it is for the same reason that students at Boston University or Colorado State do it: i.e., they're young, horny, and on the loose for the first time in life, and their mental circuitr…
You honestly believe that people who get into Harvard don't have more self-discipline on average that those who don't?
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#47In school getting help from others or spending money to solve your problems is basically illegal. This does not prepare you well for later. Some students have problems making that change especially if they didn't even know of the existence of that change or if they were heavily conditioned by their experience in their first twenty or thirty years.
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#48I studied at Harvard and the answer is that they want to pretend to be so smart and talented that they don't need to work. The image is of the effete aristocrat who enjoys life without lifting a finger. Think of George W. Bush: Got into Yale (Harvard too!) because his blue-blood line always did. Mediocre grades. Lots of alcohol and drugs. (Quit that later.) Avoided Vietnam with the cushiest fun job as a fighter pilot…
Sprezzatura is the name of this. A "certain nonchalance, so as to conceal all art and make whatever one does or says appear to be without effort and almost without any thought about it."
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#49Some are born with goals, some find their own goals, and some have goals thrust upon them. Being a smart kid can be hard. Parents, teachers and peers see that mythical attribute "potential" and push you in directions to reach it. Get A's in school? Gotta be a doctor or lawyer. (OK, that ages me, today they'd be pushing for programmer.) Graduating college with a degree you never wanted must be depressing for the perso…
> Gotta be a doctor or lawyer ... today they'd be pushing for programmer.
Where are you getting that from? Parents and teachers still push for doctor or lawyer for smart kids. Only if doctor or lawyer is unattainable would they suggest programmer. Furthermore, everybody still perceives doctors and lawyers to have higher status than programmers. Just look at TV shows from the 80s vs recent years: The high prestige characters are still doctors and lawyers, and also business leaders, sports figures, and military, but never programmers or engineers.
Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?
#50In my experience with my interns, many of whom graduated from Harvard like me, some students at all universities suffer from burnout from their strenuous childhoods. So I sympathize that some kids need to chill a little. I wouldn’t call it self sabotage, but I understand the author is just trying to understand their classmates better. I’m not sure if a cry for help / agitating at the university will matter. I’m not s…
Sounds like we really need some top universities, maybe new ones, to increase acceptance 10X or more, back to the level where they’d accept people who would’ve been accepted in 1970 with the same scores.
Add more ivy league schools to the point where they are common? Increase the size of existing schools so they accept more? Raise the value of suny schools by advertising? Luring top teachers? Syndicate top teachers content to virtual campuses branded by the Ivy League? Ban foreign students?
Employers want a ranked list. Parents want a ranked list. Schools ranked high want a rank list of the best schools. How do you get around human nature to appear better than a neighbour and a ranked list of the best schools gives parents/kids an easy template for a successful career?