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Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

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Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#41

Post by eschneider »

z3t4 wrote: post #27

This is the crucial, but also most difficult part: > Have a hiring manager talk with you, specifically, about an opening that they want you, specifically, to fill. How do you get into that position, should you constantly market yourself, or how did you do it ?

This is one of those things that 'having a network' helps with. Get a reputation as someone who gets things done while being pleasant to work with, and people you've worked with in the past will recommend you to folks they current work with or have worked with in the past. I got my current position that way. A former boss introduced me to the hiring manager at the new company (folks he'd worked with somewhere else) and basically told them "You want to hire this guy."

That said, I'm not sure it helped with _salary_ that much (I had considerably better offers in hand), but it was a great fit for both the company and myself, so I went with it.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#42

Post by stonecharioteer »

ljiljana wrote: post #22

anyone care to share experiences where their negotiation efforts failed, and why?

I was interviewing with Canonical in 2020, and I aced all interviews. The hiring manager began the salary discussion. He said he could offer 80k USD. He asked how much I wanted. I said 110k USD but was negotiable (I'm based in India), He agreed and said it was fair and said he could make that offer. Just had to get back to me. I got a form rejection letter a day later. I later discovered Canonical hates candidates who ask for more money. I learnt very early on that you never accept the first offer made to you. Ask for a little more than you'd have accepted, and see what move they make. I felt shitty since I would have taken 80k too, back then. But I'm glad I asked for what I felt I was worth. But yeah, steer clear of all roles with Canonical.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#43

Post by oddtuple »

KnobbleMcKnees wrote: post #31
emerongi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also because the employer has invested a fair bit of time/money into you and would like to see you take more responsibility after doing so. This is most obvious with juniors, where besides the salary cost, there are hidden costs of training. The expectation is that it will pay off in the future.

Employees aren't investments who owe you something. Employment is a contractual agreement of work for pay and that's it. Anything beyond that is corporate blackmail for the naive.

[flagged]

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#44

Post by geeguy »

stonecharioteer wrote: post #42
ljiljana wrote: post #22

anyone care to share experiences where their negotiation efforts failed, and why?

I was interviewing with Canonical in 2020, and I aced all interviews. The hiring manager began the salary discussion. He said he could offer 80k USD. He asked how much I wanted. I said 110k USD but was negotiable (I'm based in India), He agreed and said it was fair and said he could make that offer. Just had to get back to me. I got a form rejection letter a day later. I later discovered Canonical hates candidates wh…

Interesting, this reddit thread from a number of years back says something very different about Canonical and salary negotiation. Who knows what happened in the background in your case:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/oiqbt/ask_rubuntu_h...

"all coworkers i've talked to who are comfortable with talking about salaries have said canonical is their highest paying gig to date. each employee salary is negotiated and some have a lot more perks than others. without going into any detail canonical provided a significant salary bump over my previous position."

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#45

Post by m_rpn »

KnobbleMcKnees wrote: post #31
emerongi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also because the employer has invested a fair bit of time/money into you and would like to see you take more responsibility after doing so. This is most obvious with juniors, where besides the salary cost, there are hidden costs of training. The expectation is that it will pay off in the future.

Employees aren't investments who owe you something. Employment is a contractual agreement of work for pay and that's it. Anything beyond that is corporate blackmail for the naive.

Unfortunately people in 2023 still don't understand this very simple fact, and that's why we constantly have to prove our "value" to the world for no reason at all XD.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#46

Post by htss2013 »

emerongi wrote: post #11
htss2013 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there's absolutely a sweet spot. The ratio of pay to stress was best like 5 years into my career. I'd absolutely go back to that level of pay and responsibility if I could. The problem is if that's your sweet spot, people perceive that and try to push you up. It's like making it look easy to do super well is unacceptable and you must be repositioned until you struggle more.

It's also because the employer has invested a fair bit of time/money into you and would like to see you take more responsibility after doing so. This is most obvious with juniors, where besides the salary cost, there are hidden costs of training. The expectation is that it will pay off in the future.

The reason they push you up is pretty transparent and it's not to get a pay off on their investment.

It's because they have a really hard time externally hiring and retaining senior people in X job. They can recruit and churn through junior people all day. So they figure it'll be much cheaper to manufacture juniors into seniors internally.

If they lose a junior who fails to convert into senior, who cares? They're relatively easy to replace. It's worth the risk even if only a minority of them convert into senior people successfully, because they're so difficult to hire externally and keep.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#47

Post by llampx »

stonecharioteer wrote: post #42
ljiljana wrote: post #22

anyone care to share experiences where their negotiation efforts failed, and why?

I was interviewing with Canonical in 2020, and I aced all interviews. The hiring manager began the salary discussion. He said he could offer 80k USD. He asked how much I wanted. I said 110k USD but was negotiable (I'm based in India), He agreed and said it was fair and said he could make that offer. Just had to get back to me. I got a form rejection letter a day later. I later discovered Canonical hates candidates wh…

Exploding offers suck. Not much you could do about it aside from knowing the culture beforehand and having a number you're not willing to go below. Even the recruiter didn't give you any hints, that's on them.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#48

Post by llampx »

ljiljana wrote: post #22

anyone care to share experiences where their negotiation efforts failed, and why?

I once took an 8% drop in pay to have stock options worth more than that. Suffice it to say, the stock options never materialized. I should have stuck to my guns and asked for what I was asking for with the stock options on top.
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