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Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

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Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#41

Post by likeabbas »

ftxbro wrote: post #38
likeabbas wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. > deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are. Why would the senators make [this amendment]( https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv... ) to NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after his allegations went public? The key port…

I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists'…

I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions.

I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can not be unwell and be an intelligence officer at the level of Grusch. The likelihood of him being mentally unfit for that job and lying under oath to congress about these claims is extremely low. Also, If he is intentionally lying, he will go to jail.

All of that plus what the senators have recently done, we have a limited set of options for what could be the case.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#42

Post by philipkglass »

andrewstuart wrote: post #8

There's no aliens anywhere near earth. There really aren't. Given the staggering, likely impossible task of traveling between the stars, it's essentially impossible that they'd turn up on a planet with this many people and be so in tune with our technology and media that they manage to stay out of sight entirely, except for some government secret Area 53 base or whatever. If you think that traveling between the stars…

The hypothetical aliens don't need to be mortal biological creatures. An advanced probe "crewed" by artificial intelligence could take thousands of years to send copies of itself from one star to the next using propulsion concepts from the 1960s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracewell_probe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...

They could have have arrived in the solar system 100 million years ago, just running maintenance routines and sending observations back home ever since. They don't need to know anything about human culture to stay largely unobserved, any more than human bird watchers need to know bird culture.

I don't think that this is particularly likely but known physics permits alien visitors if you assume that they are stealthy (not acquisitive) and very patient.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#43

Post by ftxbro »

likeabbas wrote: post #41
ftxbro wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists'…

I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions. I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can no…

I'm not surprised that congress told someone to make a list or that someone might give misinformed testimony to congress. I think those are more likely than aliens or psyop.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#44

Post by AlexandrB »

likeabbas wrote: post #34
ftxbro wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth." Nah there are other outcomes: they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op, or they might be misinformed or deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are.

> they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. > deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are. Why would the senators make [this amendment]( https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv... ) to NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after his allegations went public? The key port…

> Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail.

This one had me rolling on the floor laughing. Remember when James Clapper lied to Congress about PRISM[1] and there were zero consequences? I'm pretty sure that, in practice, the consequences of lying to Congress are slightly less severe than those for parking illegally. Especially if you have friends in politics.

[1] https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73...

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#45

Post by ttctciyf »

caladin wrote: post #28
ttctciyf wrote: post #27

I noticed Josh Hawley shoring up the Grusch allegations recently[1], and now Rubio (TFA links his name to Why Are Florida Republicans Paying a White Supremacist Goon? The saga of Marco Rubio and the Proud Boys [2], BTW) Is UFO credence starting to split along party lines? 1: https://www.newsweek.com/josh-hawley-ufo-whistleblower-repor... 2: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/10/marco-rubio-christop...

No. Kirsten Gillibrand has been active in it alongside Rubio. See https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/news/press/release/gillibr...

Well, ok, but she isn't coming out of the UFO closet in quite the same way; where Rubio directly bolsters, Gillibrand has "no idea" of the veracity of Grusch's claims[1] and seems to be more focused on getting oversight on "rogue Special Access Programs":

> “We need to just look into whether there are rogue SAP programs that no one is providing oversight for,” says Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a New York Democrat who led the Senate’s April UAP hearing. “The goal for me will be to have a hearing on that at some point so that we can assess if these SAP’s actually exist.”

This has quite a different thrust to the statements of Hawley and Rubio, IMO.

1: https://www.wired.com/story/ufo-whistleblower-us-congress-in...

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#46

Post by christophilus »

andrewstuart wrote: post #8

There's no aliens anywhere near earth. There really aren't. Given the staggering, likely impossible task of traveling between the stars, it's essentially impossible that they'd turn up on a planet with this many people and be so in tune with our technology and media that they manage to stay out of sight entirely, except for some government secret Area 53 base or whatever. If you think that traveling between the stars…

That video was excellent, for anyone who runs across this comment and dismisses it for being dismissive, I recommend the watch.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#47

Post by likeabbas »

AlexandrB wrote: post #44
likeabbas wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. > deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are. Why would the senators make [this amendment]( https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv... ) to NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after his allegations went public? The key port…

> Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. This one had me rolling on the floor laughing. Remember when James Clapper lied to Congress about PRISM[1] and there were zero consequences? I'm pretty sure that, in practice, the consequences of lying to Congress are slightly less severe than those for parking illegally. Especially if you have friends in politics. [1] https://apnews.com/article/business…

I would argue the situation here is different. Clapper used politically adept language to avoid saying what surveillance capabilities the NSA possessed. Here, David Grusch has given specific program names, locations, and people involved with these programs and is alleging these programs have not been properly disclosed to congress for over 80 years. His claims were found credible and urgent by the ICIG which is why he was referred to the congressional intelligence committees. All of that, combined with Rubio saying other whistleblowers have corroborated Grusch's claims make this all the more serious.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#48

Post by ftxbro »

likeabbas wrote: post #41
ftxbro wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists'…

I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions. I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can no…

> "I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. "

I take offense to your edit that takes offense to my edit. I'm not accusing you of being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. I had even gone out of my way in my post to clarify that, in case you had a hard time understanding analogies. At this point I have to imagine that you understand my point and you are just pretending to think that I am calling you a religious zealot as an excuse to get more offended.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#49

Post by ftxbro »

likeabbas wrote: post #41
ftxbro wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists'…

I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions. I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can no…

> "You can not be unwell and be an intelligence officer at the level of Grusch."

OK but I think it's more likely that he's mistaken or misinformed or unwell or lying for some other reason, than that it's aliens or a psyop.

Re: Rubio Says He’s Heard Shocking ‘Firsthand’ Accounts of UFOs

#50

Post by fwlr »

Some years ago, a psychologist named Bem approached the field of parapsychology (the study of psi, psychic phenomenon) and performed several studies that demonstrated statistically significant effects. Much was made of just how thoroughly rigorous these studies were. They had pre-registration, large n, no p-hacking, you name it - truly unassailable papers whose results are antithetical to common sense and reality.

In the discussions following those papers, one comment stuck with me, though I forget where I read it. It goes like this:

“Coverage of these papers often has titles like ‘Rigorous Scientific Studies Prove Psi is Real’, but I would instead say ‘Psi Proves Rigorous Scientific Studies are False’”

This comes to mind with this UFO stuff because I find myself having a similar reaction. We are being presented with the highest quality of what we might call “media evidence”: reputable and named sources from real and major organizations, on the record, quotes that stand alone (no need to editorialize and distort what they’re saying etc), the whole nine yards. They are scrupulously doing everything right, you could not possibly demand a higher standard of reporting - and yet the contention is antithetical to reality. UFO reporting is basically convincing me that even unbiased honest reporting free from any agenda can’t be relied upon.

(Am I refusing to entertain the possibility that UFOs are real only because I know that if I did entertain the possibility, the evidence would be overwhelming, and that would result in me being forced to believe in UFOs, which I don’t want to do? Not quite. I am partial to Steve Sailer’s ‘Shoebill’ argument: “there is a giant bird that looks like a dinosaur and sounds like a machine gun” is a wild claim I would refuse to believe, but there are now countless hours of high quality video footage of such things existing; where is the good video evidence for UFOs?)

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