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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#41

Post by mcpackieh »

vorpalhex wrote: post #28
mcpackieh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could keep temperature down with fans, but my 90W thinkpad has fans so strong it sounds (and feels) like a hair drier and still runs very hot. I'm having a hard time imagining a 180W laptop that isn't hotter than hell.

You have a gap in your understanding of the physics here. Even a 400W laptop can be cool to the touch. A laptop is hot to the touch because it has hot components (eg a processor running at full throttle) and fails to dissipate that heat correctly. That is mostly divorced from it's power consumption. If you ran a large robotic arm off your laptop, you'd be using a lot of watts but making only a bit of heat.

There's no gap in understanding, the only way a 400W laptop can be cool to the touch is if it rapidly dissipates all that thermal energy. That would require one hell of a fan, which is what I said with my hairdrier remark. Even 90W already requires a very noisy fan. A fan moving enough air to keep a 400W laptop cool to the touch isn't realistic to put into the form factor of a laptop, and a fan sufficient to keep even a 180W laptop cool seems extremely dubious to me. It would sound like a vacuum cleaner.

What I was missing is the part where the laptop doesn't consume 180W and a substantial fraction of that power is just passing through the laptop to peripherals.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#42

Post by cogman10 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #28
mcpackieh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could keep temperature down with fans, but my 90W thinkpad has fans so strong it sounds (and feels) like a hair drier and still runs very hot. I'm having a hard time imagining a 180W laptop that isn't hotter than hell.

You have a gap in your understanding of the physics here. Even a 400W laptop can be cool to the touch. A laptop is hot to the touch because it has hot components (eg a processor running at full throttle) and fails to dissipate that heat correctly. That is mostly divorced from it's power consumption. If you ran a large robotic arm off your laptop, you'd be using a lot of watts but making only a bit of heat.

Case in point, I’ve driven my desktop computer up to 600 watts and mostly it just puts out a warm stream of air silently.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#44

Post by tshaddox »

dcow wrote: post #32
chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

On the contrary I’ve never had a usb cable fail short of physical damage (from a cat). What are you doing with your cables? On the topic of connectors, I still think Apple’s lightning connector is the most robust connection the industry has enjoyed in recent times, and most robust for its size ever. I’m sad that iPhones are going the way of USB-C.

There's just huge variation in how people use and treat their stuff. The only cables I have ever had fail are: 1) Cat 5 cables that I made myself when I first started making them and was bad at it, 2) a cable on headphones that I tried to yank while the cable was stuck in a chair caster, and 3) an old Apple Lightning cable that lived in my backpack and failed after something like 300 miles of backcountry trekking.

These are all reasonable failure cases in my opinion: 1) incompetently homemade cables, 2) an individual traumatic incident, and 3) extended use in harsh outdoor conditions. Apart from that, I've never had any cables fail, even the notoriously frail Apple cables.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#45

Post by seryoiupfurds »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

> It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because obviously you would do it that way since the cables are so frail and always fail long before the brick, and lots of people would like to be able to use a different-length cable.

They don't want to have to deal with customer support cases from people who tried to charge their laptop over a $5 cable from amazon.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#46

Post by paulirwin »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

Almost 7 years later, I am still using an Anker Powerline+ braided USB-C (C to C) 6' cable that I purchased for use with the original Pixel (1st gen) phone in 2016. It's the cable I use every night to charge my phone, and it comes with me when I travel. Never had an issue. Granted, I'm not using this in a challenging environment like i.e. in my car, but that's still pretty impressive durability with somewhere on the order of 2,400+ inserts.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#47

Post by rowanG077 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

really? I have had 0 USB-C cables die on me. And I have some cables for over 3 years now.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#48

Post by krzyk »

josh2600 wrote: post #40
dcow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary I’ve never had a usb cable fail short of physical damage (from a cat). What are you doing with your cables? On the topic of connectors, I still think Apple’s lightning connector is the most robust connection the industry has enjoyed in recent times, and most robust for its size ever. I’m sad that iPhones are going the way of USB-C.

The lightning cable being sealed is amazing. The fact that there’s no cavity to trap dust on the cable is amazing. There’s still the dust catching port on the iPhone itself but avoiding the cable having a dust cavity is a huge win.

The only cables that failed for me were lightning that I had in my car for emergency charging.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#49

Post by Sunspark »

josh2600 wrote: post #38

So is apple just gonna buy this company or what?

Doubtful, the philosophy of the company goes against Apple's way of doing things.

Apple likes sealed products that obsolesce in place. Framework likes the computer of Theseus approach.

Apple will have to start re-considering their approach though.. the EU has now mandated that phones need to start introducing replaceable batteries, etc.

There has been far too much e-waste. Why should one have to purchase an entirely new phone just because the battery wore out?

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#50

Post by mcpackieh »

lallysingh wrote: post #35
mcpackieh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Braided USB cables are robust in my experience, you might try those. With respect to DC barrel jacks, it's a mixed bag. My old ASUS Eeepc had the barrel jack get loose and make poor connections after about a year or two and I've heard others say they had the same sort of problem. On the other hand I've never seen nor heard of a thinkpad's DC barrel jack failing in any way. Those have a tight snap fit even after 15+ y…

A common failure mode is charging the device on the bed. The bed pushes up against the connector and stresses it over time.

Absolutely. I believe I've lost an audio port to this effect before; the plug for my old headphones was large and long, giving it a lot of leverage when I left my laptop on a cushioned ottoman. The plug/cable itself was fine but that port became unreliable after a while and eventually failed completely. Lesson learned, I always put a hardcover coffee table book between laptops and cushions now.
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