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San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

latimes.com

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Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#41

Post by phpisthebest »

crote wrote: post #38
Sharlin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

If a human did this, they would probably be arrested and lose their driver's license. Stuff like this is something you just can't do . But self-driving cars get away with it because we haven't figured out how to hold them responsible yet.

>>self-driving cars get away with it because we haven't figured out how to hold them responsible yet.

We have a liability model in place. Fine the company

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#42

Post by crmd »

>Under the agency’s own rules, issues such as traffic flow and interference with emergency workers can’t be used to deny expansion permits. The resolutions list four “goals” to be considered:

inclusion of people with disabilities

improved transportation options for the disadvantaged

reduction of greenhouse gases; and

passenger safety

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#43

Post by i_am_jl »

tomohawk wrote: post #3

A family member was a NY fire fighter many years ago. The Soviets had a lot of people at the UN, and they had diplomatic plates. They would park wherever they wanted, often blocking things. There was nothing the police could do. The fire chief decided to have fire drills. Whenever a cop saw a car with diplomatic plates parked in front of a hydrant, they would call the fire department, who would come out and perform a…

>EDIT: the firechief could solve this by putting truck or police cruiser style bullbars on their vehicles and "carefully nudging" the miscreant vehicles out the the way.

I know this was tongue in cheek, but it underscores a problem I have with this article title.

The problems, despite the article's title, usually don't involve robotaxis vs trucks, but robotaxis vs active firefighting scenes. The article I read earlier this year referenced cars running over hoses and inching towards firefighters after being blocked by an active firefighting scene.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/01/31/san-fr...

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#44

Post by CtrlAltDelete51 »

crote wrote: post #38
Sharlin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

If a human did this, they would probably be arrested and lose their driver's license. Stuff like this is something you just can't do . But self-driving cars get away with it because we haven't figured out how to hold them responsible yet.

Simplest thing to do is to confiscate the vehicles and levy fines large enough that its in the financial best interest of these companies to ensure that basic road safety situations are at the top of their priority lists.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#45

Post by 542354234235 »

dylan604 wrote: post #15
m00x wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Get carjacked - Car enabled carjacking mode - Locks all doors, locks manual controls, drives directly to the first SFPD station.

Maybe they should institute the emergency foam filling system to protect the occupants as well

Excellent idea. You inspire joy joy feelings in those around you.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#46

Post by tmpz22 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #40
dopylitty wrote: post #24

It’s absolutely insane that automated driving is allowed on public streets. It should be completely banned until such time as there exists a comprehensive testing regime for validating that the automated system functions in all the scenarios it might be expected to face including emergency vehicles, construction, pedestrians, bad weather, and damaged sensors.

it is clear to me that most if not all of Human Progress will cease to advance as we have gone to the extreme with safety culture. if we were still using Horse drawn carriages for travel, and someone invented the first Horseless Buggies today it would be banned and never allowed to advance at all. The amount of death and injury from the inception of the automobile would never be allowed in a new industry today. We ha…

If you were experiencing a severe emergency and received delayed care as a result of a self-driving car misbehaving - would you feel the same way?

As you lay there bleeding out would you think "I have contributed to human progress - this is good"

I believe there are ways to advance self-driving without these problems. Why can't they have a 1800 number staffed 24/7 for fire departments to contact?

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#47

Post by Sharlin »

HankB99 wrote: post #26

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the US legal system as part of a solution. If a robo-taxi causes material harm, sue the operator for some multiple of the cost of the harm. I suppose the drawback to this strategy is that real harm has to happen first and that could easily involve loss of life or limb, but perhaps the threat of that would be enough to motivate the robo-taxi providers to fix the problem.

Yes, but it seems here that the regulators are bending over backwards to dole out permits for these vehicles without bothering to think about the externalities. Still, one would think that 1) the operators could be charged with obstruction of emergency services and/or 2) they could be sued for damages in the civil court.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#48

Post by stingrae »

crote wrote: post #38
Sharlin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

If a human did this, they would probably be arrested and lose their driver's license. Stuff like this is something you just can't do . But self-driving cars get away with it because we haven't figured out how to hold them responsible yet.

Honestly human drivers in SF do this quite often. How many Door Dash drivers are double parked picking up a food delivery and block an emergency vehicle? SFFD doesn't keep a record of it.

When roads are closed, I see people trying to maneuver around cones and get through as if the rules don't apply to them.

The self driving cars are much safer drivers than a very high percentage of SF drivers.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#49

Post by jeffbee »

tmpz22 wrote: post #46
phpisthebest wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is clear to me that most if not all of Human Progress will cease to advance as we have gone to the extreme with safety culture. if we were still using Horse drawn carriages for travel, and someone invented the first Horseless Buggies today it would be banned and never allowed to advance at all. The amount of death and injury from the inception of the automobile would never be allowed in a new industry today. We ha…

If you were experiencing a severe emergency and received delayed care as a result of a self-driving car misbehaving - would you feel the same way? As you lay there bleeding out would you think "I have contributed to human progress - this is good" I believe there are ways to advance self-driving without these problems. Why can't they have a 1800 number staffed 24/7 for fire departments to contact?

Internally your logic is flawless but I don't see how you can ignore the current delays caused by human driver traffic, not to mention the ambulance traffic created by human driver errors.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#50

Post by maerF0x0 »

Seems to me a simple regulation like a fire department access in buildings could solve this.

eg1: What about a direct line to a 24/7 operations center with cruise?

eg2: Or how about a proximal access console controller that allows them to take control of the the vehicle (with occupants consent if occupied) .

This neednt be a total ban on AVs

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