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Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

economist.com

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Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#41

Post by rootw0rm »

jrflowers wrote: post #31
rootw0rm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a fairly reasonable study to me. I don't see how the study participants' possible lack of familiarity with the drugs diminishes the value of the data. From the article: "Star performers during the placebo session fell to the bottom of the pack when they had taken the drugs." That directly refutes your assertion they were doing a novel task for the first time.

I would suggest taking Ritalin every day for two weeks and then reporting back on the difference between day 1 and day 14. You’ll have plenty of words to share! Probably a TON the first day, especially.

I would like to see that study too. I would consider the results of both studies valuable for different reasons.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#42

Post by adastra22 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #20
lacker wrote: post #2

I want to preface this by saying that I am not a supporter of study drugs, except for caffeine. I don't find these studies to be convincing. You give people a pill, they don't know what it is. These people don't know what to expect, they've never taken study drugs before. They're solving some random logic puzzle they've never seen before. "Participants had to work out which items to put into a bag." Compare to how th…

> Maybe one day we will get a drug that enhances mental function, that works effectively and has no real downsides Coffee. And to your main point, if you took people who’d never drink coffee before and gave them a caffeine pill, guaranteed they’d perform worse.

Coffee has some very real downsides. Ironically to the GP’s point though, Adderall is like a super mega coffee without those downsides.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#43

Post by atemerev »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #37
vjk800 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been a sort of lazy high achiever and very puzzled about this. I was always a near-top (but not top) student in schools, got a PhD and am now working in a high paying job in a bank. Besides one or two years during my university years, I've always been extremely lazy. On the other hand, in all of these institutions there have been many people who have been very serious hard workers and perhaps even at the…

My story is fairly similar to yours. I felt that I always had limited energy to really focus on the "important" things that turned somewhat boring after a while, and my peers who were able to keep going went further in academia. I got easily distracted by more "fun" problem solving and looking around rather than going really really deep in a given topic. If only I had had that energy to go the extra mile, I could now…

I returned to the academia after 15 years in the industry. Copying protobufs for an ad company (or worse) will not get you any meaning of life.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#44

Post by pbmonster »

vjk800 wrote: post #24
DiscourseFan wrote: post #5

I think this is something well-known among high-achievers at school, but I knew some people at school who would just spend 36 hours straight doing all their assignments and still get bad marks. It was always this way for me: work for a few hours, take a break, (maybe a walk, chat with friends/roommates), make some (healthy) food, then get back to it. Staying up never helps, because you have to sleep anyway, and getti…

I've always been a sort of lazy high achiever and very puzzled about this. I was always a near-top (but not top) student in schools, got a PhD and am now working in a high paying job in a bank. Besides one or two years during my university years, I've always been extremely lazy. On the other hand, in all of these institutions there have been many people who have been very serious hard workers and perhaps even at the…

> I don't know if it's just that life is so random that the effect of hard work gets washed out by random life choices or what. It's also plausible that working hard just puts you in a very non-creative mindset and creativity is what gets most of the work done in a complex environment in the end.

Don't overestimate how much actual work is getting done by "hard working" people. They put in the time, but procrastination doesn't stop just because you work hard. And that certainly includes the types of "productive" procrastination that doesn't look/feel like procrastination, like making Figures/Powerpoints more pretty or doing another rewrite on a piece of text nobody is ever going to do more with than glance at.

Seriously, otherwise intelligent people can spent an hour re-writing a single email.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#45

Post by triggercut »

The title should really read: "study drugs make some people worse at problem solving, not better"

Or even "prescription medication that effects brain not always helpful for people who don't need it"

Anecdotal evidence but my problem solving was good before medication and better now that I have the right medication.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#46

Post by spoonfeeder006 »

mordae wrote: post #10
lacker wrote: post #2

I want to preface this by saying that I am not a supporter of study drugs, except for caffeine. I don't find these studies to be convincing. You give people a pill, they don't know what it is. These people don't know what to expect, they've never taken study drugs before. They're solving some random logic puzzle they've never seen before. "Participants had to work out which items to put into a bag." Compare to how th…

Tak Modafinil as an example: > The real problems with these drugs are addiction, Not addictive. > side effects, Same as caffeine while active. Irritating comedown after. > and the phenomenon where you have to take higher doses over time to get the same effect. Abstaining during weekends helps. The real problem is lack of sleep it can somewhat mask. > Maybe one day we will get a drug that enhances mental function, tha…

If good company and plenty of rest solves the issue then the person doesn't really have ADHD. Even exercise itself is not enough for some poeple

Everyone responds differently to these medications. Some can become addicted or suicidal on one med while for others that same med can be a life changer

For about 30% of people these medications have no effect

I'm not saying sleep, exercise, and other psychotherapy aren't options but some people really benefit from medication

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#48

Post by nvarsj »

adastra22 wrote: post #40
lacker wrote: post #2

I want to preface this by saying that I am not a supporter of study drugs, except for caffeine. I don't find these studies to be convincing. You give people a pill, they don't know what it is. These people don't know what to expect, they've never taken study drugs before. They're solving some random logic puzzle they've never seen before. "Participants had to work out which items to put into a bag." Compare to how th…

> Maybe one day we will get a drug that enhances mental function, that works effectively and has no real downsides. I think that could be a great boon to society. I don't think it exists yet though, or that we are even really making any progress. Adderall (correctly dosed) is precisely this.

Come on, you can’t honestly say Adderall has no side effects.

Re: Study drugs make people worse at problem solving, not better

#50

Post by spoonfeeder006 »

bloak wrote: post #33
lacker wrote: post #2

I want to preface this by saying that I am not a supporter of study drugs, except for caffeine. I don't find these studies to be convincing. You give people a pill, they don't know what it is. These people don't know what to expect, they've never taken study drugs before. They're solving some random logic puzzle they've never seen before. "Participants had to work out which items to put into a bag." Compare to how th…

> Maybe one day we will get a drug that enhances mental function, that works effectively and has no real downsides. What's the closest we have today to an effective drug with "no real downsides", assuming that nutritional supplements don't count? If such a drug exists, I want to know why the body hasn't evolved either to produce it by itself or to obtain the same effect in another way. (Possible answers include: it's…

> If such a drug exists, I want to know why the body hasn't evolved either to produce it by itself or to obtain the same effect in another way

You're assuming evolution is perfect and that we have reached perfection already

Your question is also assuming that each drug impacts everyone the same way

Some people who take a certain psych med won't experience side effects, while others may experience severe side effects

E.g. most people who take Straterra experience benefits but some outliers may become extremely suicidal

I would say overall human science on drugs is primitive. I think to achieve what you are really thinking about will need a different overall approach to psych med development

I wouldn't overlook the potential for naturally found compounds either. Many indigenous peoples have or had vast knowledge on their pharmaceutical effects but often these were destroyed in genocides

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