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Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

old.reddit.com

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Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#41

Post by flangola7 »

jfasi wrote: post #32
tomr75 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are protesting the high/unreasonable API price out of nowhere

And that's their right. Many subs announced they would protest for 48 hours to prove a point, at which point they returned. But a moderator who continues to keep their sub private indefinitely is not protesting a decision, they are defacing their subreddits and harming their members. Removing such a moderator is the appropriate thing to do.

Incorrect, it is a legitimate protest. Many have pointed out that Reddit could just wait out 48 hours, so indefinite blackout is a more logical move.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#42

Post by SmokeInFog »

jfasi wrote: post #21
ehnto wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is just where a community posted up. Reddit is free-riding off the efforts of the community, it is a lopsided arrangement. Reddit is not a challenging software platform to replicate, there are already platforms ready to be migrated to. They are biting the hand that feeds them, and if the community decides to leave Reddit has no value proposition anymore. They think they are the community, but they are just whe…

If the community decides to leave, it won't be because of API pricing, it'll be because the content and spaces they used to enjoy were taken offline because of a minority of moderators.

I left precisely because of API pricing. I'm not using Reddit's shitty mobile app. I see the writing on the wall. old.reddit.com will be gone within a few years along with RES. I won't suffer that.

Fuck 'em.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#43

Post by freddie_mercury »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #16

If you don't pay for it, it's not your community. Again and again people think they get something for free, which they don't. If it's free you're a volunteer for the company, if you pay you're a customer.

Paying for it doesn't make it your community, either, whatever that even means.

Just look at the old AOL keywords. People paid for AOL. Didn't matter.

Even in a community, the majority can choose to do things you don't like, just ask anyone who lives in an HOA.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#44

Post by justinjlynn »

jfasi wrote: post #37
janalsncm wrote: post #31

Reddit could have avoided all of this years ago by building out the tools that moderators claim to need. Instead, they relied on third parties to create them. Doing this would have nullified mods’ strongest justification for protesting. While removing 3rd party apps is certainly annoying for users, mods are what keep the site functioning. The fact that Reddit chose to take this course of action tells me that they don…

> Doing this would have nullified mods’ strongest justification for protesting Reddit has announced they're providing carveouts for apps that provide critical moderation tools, that justification is already gone.

Non-concessions dangled (that were never demanded as dangled but which most observers think were) are far more effective than demanded concessions given. Your comment illustrates that nicely.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#45

Post by est31 »

This strategy would work if the people who disagree with the API closure is just the moderators (who provide free labour to reddit). It's not just them though, it might be felt most strongly by the power users, but people also frequent the app because of those power users.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#46

Post by jfasi »

fzeroracer wrote: post #30
jfasi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the community decides to leave, it won't be because of API pricing, it'll be because the content and spaces they used to enjoy were taken offline because of a minority of moderators.

I mean if they follow your plan and replace the moderators of the subreddits I enjoy then I'm done with Reddit. Reddit can't expect to freeride off various communities and then kick out mods without a reasonable excuse, and this definitely does not classify.

And if they allow popular subreddits to remain private indefinitely then a lot more users will leave than just the ones who oppose the API changes. Better to force communities back open and let the most obstinate users leave than keep them private to satisfy the feelings of that obnoxious minority.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#47

Post by GeorgeTirebiter »

goda90 wrote: post #25
jfasi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the community decides to leave, it won't be because of API pricing, it'll be because the content and spaces they used to enjoy were taken offline because of a minority of moderators.

There are lots of users that are unhappy with Reddit for this. I've stopped using it this week.

I looked at one reddit: r/science. That is blockaded now. A 'private community'. This is (was) an aggregator of SCIENCE news and information. How does blocking the flow of potentially life-saving information help "the cause"?

Reddit is dead to me, too. This is beyond sad.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#48

Post by kazinator »

x86x87 wrote: post #11
diogenescynic wrote: post #7

[flagged]

lol. who do you think does the hard work of keeping the subs clean? agree that some mods could be scumbags but to generalize to all mods is a stretch. reddit without good mods is a guaranteed shit show

Designated moderation is a pretty poor system. Everyone knows who the dickheads are; you just have to leverage that communal knowledge---but in a way that avoids oppressive majorities.

Have a system whereby any user can indicate zero or more other users to be their personal moderators.

This is kept secret by the site; nobody has any idea of how many other people have selected them as one of their personal moderators, other than by leaking that information.

Then have a rule like this: if some (configurable) number of your personal moderators block some post or account, you also automatically block that post or account.

The automatic block doesn't count as a moderating action on your behalf, with respect to those who have selected you as their personal moderator; it's a second-order block.

This could result in a reasonable blend between the classic opposites: someone else deciding for you what you shouldn't read, or else you having to do all the work. The former model represented by moderated forums like Reddit, or moderated mailing lists or Usenet newsgroups, and the latter represented by unmoderated Usenet newsgroups where it's just you and your personal killfile.

Users should have some sort of statistics dashboard to determine roughly much they are not seeing due to which personal moderators.

Personal moderators could be divided into classes. If someone is your class 1 personal moderator, then if they block something, you don't see it. If three class 2 moderators of yours block something, you don't see it. And if seven class 3 moderators block something, you don't see it.

On any user you see, you can pick them to be your class 1, 2 or 3 moderator.

These designations could have an expiry date, otherwise people will "set and forget", and popular users will amass a lot of power to block. E.g. if everyone in a forum chooses you as a personal class 1 mod, you basically decide what that forum doesn't read. That could be a poorly informed choice on their behalf, which would be somewhat mitigated by expiry.

There could be some expiry workflow. On your first visit to the site on a given day, you're reminded of expired personal moderators: would you like to grant them an extension or drop them?

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#49

Post by jfasi »

flangola7 wrote: post #41
jfasi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's their right. Many subs announced they would protest for 48 hours to prove a point, at which point they returned. But a moderator who continues to keep their sub private indefinitely is not protesting a decision, they are defacing their subreddits and harming their members. Removing such a moderator is the appropriate thing to do.

Incorrect, it is a legitimate protest. Many have pointed out that Reddit could just wait out 48 hours, so indefinite blackout is a more logical move.

An indefinite blackout is not a protest, it's extortion. It's saying "if I can't enjoy this subreddit the way I want to, no one can."

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#50

Post by p-e-w »

The stickied comment stating that "this contradicts standing policies" is amusing. As if Reddit was somehow contractually bound to abide by random rules that they themselves made up, on their own site.

It's astonishing how many people don't seem to understand what it means to be a user today. Especially if you're not paying, but even if you are.

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