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MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

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Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#41
post #2

Wow, unbelievable that it was designed in 2001! It still looks fresh and modern, although maybe a bit too playful so that it appears a bit childish? But only barely. It appears to have all the basic functionality expected from a modern operating system, I instantly feel right at home although I've never used it. I find the review terrible though, one of the major changes was the user interface, revolutionary I would…

> It still looks fresh and modern, although maybe a bit too playful so that it appears a bit childish?

The aesthetics is called „Frutiger Aero“. Lots of colors and especially of blue, lots of transparency effects and fake light reflections. It all is inspired by natural landscapes with blue skies or blue water surfaces. Also skeuomorphisms everywhere.

Windows 7 could be called the pinnacle of the use of Frutiger Aero in UI design when Apple already started to move away and embrace material design. Windows 8 was the big cut where its UI forcefully pushed material design onto its users without any transition grace period. That’s one of the reasons why everybody hated it.

Edit: On Macs even the hardware design reflected the transition from Frutiger Aero to Material Design: The early 2000 Macs were all semi-transparent plastic shells with bright shades of blue and green. Then Apple discovered Aluminum and silver unibody cases. Now there is no color left in the design universe. This also marks the time MacOS interfaces started to look decidedly more "grown-up".

I wonder what will be next or are we going to stick with heartless, cold metal designs forever?

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#42
post #27

The first time I learned about OS X, I blindly bought Apple shares. I knew it would set them up for success down the road. Sounds silly now but foundation, such as OS for a computer company, matter. Although, OS X was painful for many years.

> Although, OS X was painful for many years.

I guess it depends on how you define "many". I bought my first Mac in 1998 (the "Smurf" G3) and used MacOS 8/9 for quite a few years after that. I remember looking forward to OS X once they announced it—it was literally the coolest shit ever. Like, the ability to run Photoshop and Emacs on the same system at the same time? Wow, was that cool.

There was definitely a period where you had to dual-boot between MacOS 9 and OS X for a while, but by the time I bought my first iBook in 2002, OS X was the standard, and was way better than anything else out there. I don't think I ever booted into MacOS 9 on my iBook, except for shits and giggles.

I just don't think there was any question that OS X was leaps and bounds better than OS 9, to the point where when I had to use OS 9 for work 4-5 years later (the video editing world always lags 5-6 years behind the rest of us) I was a little bit peeved about having to used such an antiquated system that literally had no modern web browser support except for something called "iCab".

Anyway, all of this is to say… I wouldn't call 1-2 years, at the most, "many".

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#43
I have such strong nostalgia and latent excitement about the early days of OS X. I was just a teenager in the early 2000s, and as a young Apple nerd with several iMac G3s in the house (my parents are graphic designers; there was a family Mac, and some cast-offs from my high school) I'd get so into upgrading them through the versions and looking at all the cool new stuff and thinking it was so damn clean and futuristic.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#44

They glossed over the NeXT roots which is telling, the ideas were only half-heartedly baked into the OS. It should be strictly enforced that everything on-screen has a relationship to everything else. But that would have been hard work, and they realized eye candy was an easier route when you can just announce something else every few years. This is why desktop evironments really haven't changed since the first comme…

What does it mean for everything on screen to have a relationship to everything else? Could you elaborate?

Yes, based on the NeXTSTEP roots, everything should be object oriented. Think of it like visual copy/paste. Pretty much every on screen item should have a meaning and relationship to everything else.

For example, in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5o5liZxnA at 35:00 you can see how an application is loaded from the network and a live chart dragged from one app to another. That isn't a one-off gimmick, it's how the OS and that version of Objective C worked.

I bought a Macbook because I was excited by this idea, but I quickly realized it was not even surface deep. I could drag some on screen elements around, but it was inconsistent at best.

But I guess there was a conflict with Raskin's idea of making everything resemble a real world equivalent (object as in "toaster app," rather than decomposed feature of "can toast") and they wanted to let third party applications do their own thing. If the whole OS (and network) was effectively the application, what's their product? Never let profound world changing innovation get in the way of a trillion dollar company, I guess.

I think of it, in my muddle headed imagineering way, this way: https://wiki.zooid.org/wiki/20120407/Raskin_vs_Engelbart

I suppose by now we would think of it all as a graph rather than OO, just add coordinates (and the required couple decades of cultural development of how they would relate) and you've got your spatial interface.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#45
post #4

Having never actually interacted with a mac from that era, are the grey and white stripes in the toolbar screenshots actually visible on the screen or are they an artifact of old screenshots on modern displays?

It's by design, I remember hearing that it would visually match the semi translucent plastic stripes of the original iMac frame, but those, while a bit similar, are vertical.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything after Windows 2000 was ugly. Windows 2000 was the last system in the world with coherent and beautiful UI. Those times are over. We can't have good things.

I disagree; I love pre-flat Mac OS X. I think Aero from Windows Vista and 7 was nice (even if I preferred the Windows Classic theme), and GNOME 2 was well-done and consistent if you stuck to applications written using GTK+ 2. I concur that I’m not a fan of modern UI/UX, though. Give me the interfaces and the UI guidelines of Mac OS 8, Windows 2000, and Mac OS X Tiger (with Spotlight) any day.

If one took the version of Aqua from Mavericks and restored aqua scrollbars (it had flat gray pill scrollbars similar to what’s in macOS now), that would be the most perfect iteration of the look in my opinion.

Tiger’s Aqua comes in second, and Leopard/Snow Leopard’s third. I never really liked the ubiquitous dark grays found in 10.5/10.6, it felt kinda gloomy in the same way Win95/98 did relative to Win2K (also due to darker grays).

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#47
post #42
post #27

The first time I learned about OS X, I blindly bought Apple shares. I knew it would set them up for success down the road. Sounds silly now but foundation, such as OS for a computer company, matter. Although, OS X was painful for many years.

> Although, OS X was painful for many years. I guess it depends on how you define "many". I bought my first Mac in 1998 (the "Smurf" G3) and used MacOS 8/9 for quite a few years after that. I remember looking forward to OS X once they announced it—it was literally the coolest shit ever. Like, the ability to run Photoshop and Emacs on the same system at the same time? Wow, was that cool. There was definitely a period…

To be fair, OS X was OK by 2003 but third-party softwares and especially MS Office sucked until 2007-08.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#48
post #42
post #27

The first time I learned about OS X, I blindly bought Apple shares. I knew it would set them up for success down the road. Sounds silly now but foundation, such as OS for a computer company, matter. Although, OS X was painful for many years.

> Although, OS X was painful for many years. I guess it depends on how you define "many". I bought my first Mac in 1998 (the "Smurf" G3) and used MacOS 8/9 for quite a few years after that. I remember looking forward to OS X once they announced it—it was literally the coolest shit ever. Like, the ability to run Photoshop and Emacs on the same system at the same time? Wow, was that cool. There was definitely a period…

As I recall, the main issue with the earliest versions of OS X is that they were slow, somewhat unstable, and would occasionally do really weird things (like how on my summer 2000 iMac DV, OS X 10.0.x once randomly decided it wasn’t going to draw the cursor any more and had to be reinstalled before it was fixed). This led me to spend a fair amount of time booted into OS 9 with an Aqua Kaleidoscope scheme applied and SmoothType installed for that luxe OS X style text rendering.

10.1 made things a little more stable but wasn’t revolutionary.

10.2 Jaguar on the other hand… holy cow. It was so much faster and more stable on my iMac it was absurd. The speed gap was still there but nowhere near as dramatic, making it a lot more usable. This is where I went almost full time booted OS X outside of the odd random thing that didn’t play nice with Classic.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#49
Having developed for OSX in that era, IBM ViaVoice, it wasn’t a completely functional OS. The audio input was broken every alternate build, for instance.

I’d come from a NeXT background and was surprised how slow OSX (OpenStep in essence) was on PPC.

Re: MacOS X 10.1 (2001)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call XP (Luna) theme ugly. It wasn't as clean as Windows2k but it was just fine.

I found the bright blue taskbar and window decorators and the bright green start button, among other very bright and contrasting colors, quite the eyesore both at the time and now. Thankfully you could switch to the Windows Classic theme.

The best thing about Luna is that its existence necessitated a capable theme engine, which enabled a vibrant ecosystem of third party .msstyle themes. Some of those were very well designed and a joy to use.

Aero, or at least the slightly toned down Windows 7 version of it was better than Luna, but similarly to me the bigger benefit it brought was the more capable theme engine. There were a lot of awesome third party .msstyles for it too.

I’ll forever resent Windows 8 for ripping out that nice theme engine in favor of one barely more capable than what shipped in Windows 1.x.

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