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Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

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Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#41

Post by baud147258 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #22
Dylan16807 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't caught an audience yet then you're probably streaming to very few people. A few dollars can cover that bandwidth until you get one or two subs or donators.

I'd also venture to guess (no hard numbers) that most successful streamers -- measured as "they don't need a day job" -- started streaming as a hobby. Such a person is much more likely to be willing to spend a few dollars a month, especially considering they'll likely already have purchased a microphone and webcam. That being said, maybe it's better for it to be free considering the people paying for such a hobby wou…

> most successful streamers -- measured as "they don't need a day job"

I think it's closer to 'Streaming is their day job'...

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#42

Post by ThatPlayer »

tomkarho wrote: post #29
d1str0 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common sense given economy of scale. There’s definitely a barrier between totally free and even just a few dollars a month in bandwidth.

I agree with the sentiment but I'd love to see some numbers to that effect. Here's my lousy attempt (someone more fluent in math than me, please correct because these numbers seem crazy to me so I concede the high probability that I am wrong). Let's say I want to stream hd picture so bandwidth requirement would be roughly 3MB/s. That's what I presume it takes to deliver one second of hd video to a single person. Let'…

I'm not sure I'd use a VPS. Cloudflare Stream does both live streaming and on-demand video. $1 per 1,000 minutes. Not a lot better than your estimate, but it includes the server costs as they handle transcoding too. I haven't tried their player to compare with YouTube though.

https://www.cloudflare.com/products/cloudflare-stream/

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#43

Post by lyu07282 »

carstenhag wrote: post #37
lyu07282 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will kill all major streamer events, like the OTK live show they had in Las Vegas last week or the Streamer Awards. I also find it strange how YouTube has no problem with it but somehow Twitch makes a big deal about it. If anyone is curious about the production quality of those shows: The Streamer Awards 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnoiaRk7eqM&t=1830s OTK Elevated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fdi…

In Germany, most Twitch streamers are pissed off at twitch anyway. They only want to chip in 10k for big events for example - private tv broadcasters are putting in way more money and getting the community to their sites. Also: The old 70/30 deals that some had, expired. 5€ subs got turned to 4€ subs so twitch has to pay less for twitch prime subs. But there's no real alternative, YouTube streaming is terrible (no co…

I didn't even know there were german twitch streamers, I thought they required a broadcasting license to stream

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#45

Post by everforward »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #35
willcipriano wrote: post #28

Antitrust enforcement when? This behavior seems very anticompetitive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_dealing

Exclusive dealing is pretty different. Twitch isn't selling something to streamers, and giving them noncompetitive terms. They are paying them to stream, which is the opposite. It is more like putting limitations on what advertising a NASCAR driver can put on the car you are paying them to drive. I still dont like the decision from twitch. Let people do what they can to make money and keep streaming.

I think donations are where the NASCAR analogy falls apart. Twitch keeps a percentage of donations made on the platform, which starts to look a lot like Twitch selling a platform (and access to users) where the pricing is a percentage of revenue.

I don't think Twitch paying the streamers really nullifies that, otherwise companies could escape an Exclusive Dealing conviction by just adding an "oh, and we pay you $3" clause to their contracts.

Twitch makes more sense as a company if they're a seller. There's a clear story there where streamers buy access in exchange for a percentage of their revenue on the platform. If they're a buyer, what are they buying from streamers?

Just to add on top, I think streamers only get money from ads if they're at some tier with Twitch (partner, I think?). There's a whole bunch of streamers that aren't getting paid anything directly by Twitch, and are only getting donations after Twitch has taken their cut.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#46

Post by Eezee »

lyu07282 wrote: post #43
carstenhag wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, most Twitch streamers are pissed off at twitch anyway. They only want to chip in 10k for big events for example - private tv broadcasters are putting in way more money and getting the community to their sites. Also: The old 70/30 deals that some had, expired. 5€ subs got turned to 4€ subs so twitch has to pay less for twitch prime subs. But there's no real alternative, YouTube streaming is terrible (no co…

I didn't even know there were german twitch streamers, I thought they required a broadcasting license to stream

Just looked it up, since I remembered hearing about it and apparently there are some new rules where you only need one if you average more than 20000 viewers.

That's the case for just 2 streamers in Germany. No other streamer had more than 20k average viewers in the last 30 days, but some are close, so they might have one as well.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#47

Post by s1artibartfast »

everforward wrote: post #45
s1artibartfast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exclusive dealing is pretty different. Twitch isn't selling something to streamers, and giving them noncompetitive terms. They are paying them to stream, which is the opposite. It is more like putting limitations on what advertising a NASCAR driver can put on the car you are paying them to drive. I still dont like the decision from twitch. Let people do what they can to make money and keep streaming.

I think donations are where the NASCAR analogy falls apart. Twitch keeps a percentage of donations made on the platform, which starts to look a lot like Twitch selling a platform (and access to users) where the pricing is a percentage of revenue. I don't think Twitch paying the streamers really nullifies that, otherwise companies could escape an Exclusive Dealing conviction by just adding an "oh, and we pay you $3" c…

I routinely watch streamers with double-digit viewers that run ads for the profit sharing so I don't think there's a cut off there.

As for what twitch is buying, they are buying the performance and or content, not dissimilar from Netflix or cable TV. If you follow the money, all the donations and all of their ad Revenue go to Twitch, which then cuts a check. The exception as I understand it is sponsored content ( playing a specific game) or extra in stream ads which is what twitch is trying to Crackdown on. Some streamers have sponsored banners on stream or play videos ads from advertisers that contracted directly with them and not twitch.

The situation is somewhat complicated because streamers have the option to select how many twitch ads they play on their Channel. If they are running their own ads that twitch doesn't get a cut of, then they won't want to run as many ads from twitch

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#49

Post by carlmr »

Eezee wrote: post #46
lyu07282 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't even know there were german twitch streamers, I thought they required a broadcasting license to stream

Just looked it up, since I remembered hearing about it and apparently there are some new rules where you only need one if you average more than 20000 viewers. That's the case for just 2 streamers in Germany. No other streamer had more than 20k average viewers in the last 30 days, but some are close, so they might have one as well.

I wasn't sure if this was a joke about overlicensing of everything in Germany, but alas no.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#50

Post by lyu07282 »

carlmr wrote: post #49
Eezee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looked it up, since I remembered hearing about it and apparently there are some new rules where you only need one if you average more than 20000 viewers. That's the case for just 2 streamers in Germany. No other streamer had more than 20k average viewers in the last 30 days, but some are close, so they might have one as well.

I wasn't sure if this was a joke about overlicensing of everything in Germany, but alas no.

I think it's even funnier because it's true
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