We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th • Hacker News Board

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#41

Post by mindslight » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 3:59 AM UTC

JamesAdir wrote: post #29

lockhouse wrote: post #16

It amazes me how little Reddit's leadership understand about their own history. Reddit essentially took off because Digg screwed the pooch so hard with their redesign and just general mismanagement of their community.

They understand a lot about Digg's history and they want to make sure that this time both the managers and the investors will reach the most profitable pay day possible. Either by selling the site or getting an IPO. That's the only target. Personally for me, Reddit lost the human touch several years ago and with the cancelling of Secret Santa that was one of the most fun activities on the internet, I've stopped using…

One single part of the site pumps meme stocks like nobody's business, and most every stock is a meme stock to some degree. If owners/management wanted the biggest payday, they should have worked with users to pump the value. Things like selling microshares that give you sitewide flair, etc. Instead they chose the boring old method of juicing the balance sheet by arbitraging mindshare? Sounds like an unforced error.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#42

Post by midoridensha » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 4:12 AM UTC

xattt wrote: post #24

midoridensha wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it." Personally, I'm looking forward to Reddit going the way of Digg.

There’s a few posts that are pretty valuable and should be archived in some form or another.

I'm sure the same was true for Digg, but those posts were all lost anyway. That's the danger of using a centralized, for-profit corporation's message forum service. By contrast, we can still look up posts from decades ago on USENET.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#43

Post by autoexec » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:12 AM UTC

that_guy_iain wrote: post #5

Raicuparta wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't know much about the subject, and didn't read too deeply into it. Third party apps are only a part of the problem (which you're also misrepresenting), and not the one referenced in the comment you answered to. I suggest following the links in the post to understand the full depth of the problem.

I've read deeply into the problem. And I've come to the conclusion the problem is cheap reddit users who don't want to pay for software. There are complaints that the offical app isn't accessible. Ok, pay for accessible software or complain enough to Reddit to fix their app. There are laws I believe to force them to have an accessible app. Mods use tools to moderate. Ok. You want to have a little hobby of moderating…

>I think software should cost money.

What an odd opinion to have about software, but not about labor or content. Perhaps reddit should have to pay every moderator for the work that they do. Perhaps they should pay ever user who upvotes or downvotes since they're sorting content for reddit and not getting paid. Maybe reddit should pay for everyone who posts or leaves comments since the only reason reddit is worth anything at all is the content provided by those "cheap users" you think are freeloading.

If reddit wants to have a hobby where they run a website collecting the labor of others they should pay for it right?

The internet is a better place when everyone who uses a website isn't required for fork over hard cash. Not every means of displaying web content or interacting with websites should require someone to fork over money to those websites either. Worst of all though is how dumb reddit is being to cut off these third party tools and interfaces which have features that are in high demand. Reddit will lose users if those users are forced to use their shitty interface, but worse reddit will lose a ton of data on what sorts of features their users desire but which reddit has never considered offering.

One of the great things about having a bunch of third parties writing software (mostly for free) that interacts with reddit is that reddit can (as they have in the past) poach ideas from those apps and improve their service which will only make them more successful.

The people who work for reddit (by which I mean the people who are currently paid to work for reddit since most of the people doing work for reddit are entirely unpaid) are not impoverished. No one is suggesting that they deserve nothing at all. It's perfectly fine for them to make money, it's not fine for them to try to make money by screwing over others (including themselves). This is shortsighted greed on reddit's part that will ultimately result in reddit being worse. It's no wonder so many people are against it.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#44

Post by midoridensha » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:30 AM UTC

soupfordummies wrote: post #37

tester457 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, but there's no viable replacement yet.

I feel that, we’re already on the closest one IMO. I already spend way more browsing time here than Reddit these days. That said, it does lack focused topic discussion for things like, your favorite band for instance. I guess we will all just use a million fragmented discords most likely

>That said, it does lack focused topic discussion for things like, your favorite band for instance.

That was always the greatest thing about Reddit IMO: there's some really unique and highly-focused subs there. However, the fact that you have to use a single account across all the subreddits (you can use different accounts, but it's a pain) makes you very vulnerable to some crazy mod in one sub banning you and then getting you banned from the entire site. Completely separate discussion forum sites, as were common 10-20 years ago, didn't have this problem.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#45

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:48 AM UTC

gioo wrote: post #13

that_guy_iain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't. There is a lot of talk of the price being unreasonable. Realistically, it's rather reasonable. The problem only comes in when these apps have failed to monetize subscriptions. In some cases, these apps are monetized by ads and therefore directly competing with Reddit for the ad buy. Seriously, I am meant to feel bad that someone who decided to directly compete with a company is now being charged mo…

Remember that not all 3rd party clients are/were developed for-profit, there are plenty which are open-source, have no monetization or ads, and are gonna be hit by this change too. >This isn't about Reddit being greedy. This is Reddit being greedy. They are asking $2.50 a user per month, while the revenue they make from someone using the first party reddit app on average is just $0.12 per month. [0] Add this the rest…

[deleted]

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#46

Post by that_guy_iain » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 7:44 AM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #43

that_guy_iain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read deeply into the problem. And I've come to the conclusion the problem is cheap reddit users who don't want to pay for software. There are complaints that the offical app isn't accessible. Ok, pay for accessible software or complain enough to Reddit to fix their app. There are laws I believe to force them to have an accessible app. Mods use tools to moderate. Ok. You want to have a little hobby of moderating…

>I think software should cost money. What an odd opinion to have about software, but not about labor or content. Perhaps reddit should have to pay every moderator for the work that they do. Perhaps they should pay ever user who upvotes or downvotes since they're sorting content for reddit and not getting paid. Maybe reddit should pay for everyone who posts or leaves comments since the only reason reddit is worth anyt…

Trying to be clever. This isn't it. "You're not that guy" as they say.

> What an odd opinion to have about software, but not about labor or content.

At what point have I promoted slavery? I think paying content creators is great and has done wonders for YouTube for example.

> Perhaps reddit should have to pay every moderator for the work that they do.

I would much prefer that. That way we would stop having such annoying power trippy moderators. We would also see a more consistant approach to moderating. But that would deny these moderators their little hobby.

> If reddit wants to have a hobby where they run a website collecting the labor of others they should pay for it right?

Do they collect? They don't. Collecting would mean they go out and get it. Even in such a simple position like that your logic falls part very simply. They allow others to use their services.

I wasn't againist Reddit providing a free API just like I am not againist others providing free things. If people wish to charge for their content or charge for moderating then I fully support them and would speak out against any nay-sayers.

> The internet is a better place when everyone who uses a website isn't required for fork over hard cash.

There are no plans to charge for the website. Just plans to charge for an API. These are two very separate things. As pointed out, some of the users of the API are direct competitors of Reddit.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#47

Post by that_guy_iain » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 7:50 AM UTC

gioo wrote: post #13

that_guy_iain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't. There is a lot of talk of the price being unreasonable. Realistically, it's rather reasonable. The problem only comes in when these apps have failed to monetize subscriptions. In some cases, these apps are monetized by ads and therefore directly competing with Reddit for the ad buy. Seriously, I am meant to feel bad that someone who decided to directly compete with a company is now being charged mo…

Remember that not all 3rd party clients are/were developed for-profit, there are plenty which are open-source, have no monetization or ads, and are gonna be hit by this change too. >This isn't about Reddit being greedy. This is Reddit being greedy. They are asking $2.50 a user per month, while the revenue they make from someone using the first party reddit app on average is just $0.12 per month. [0] Add this the rest…

> Remember that not all 3rd party clients are/were developed for-profit, there are plenty which are open-source, have no monetization or ads, and are gonna be hit by this change too.

People can use those open source tools on the free level that doesn't require the higher level of use.

> This is Reddit being greedy. They are asking $2.50 a user per month, while the revenue they make from someone using the first party reddit app on average is just $0.12 per month. [0] Add this the restriction on NSFW content served from the API, and it's clear reddit is just straight up trying to kill 3rd party apps.

$2.50 a user. You're mad they're trying to make money. Most businesses wouldn't survive if they only got $2.50 per user. Not only that realistically, the infrastucture probably costs about that to run. We're not talking some static website or simple infrastucture here. Seriously, it's pretty entitled to be mad at company is trying to generate $2.50 per user per month. Like really entitled.

It's really a poor way to look at it "Sorry but you've only been making $0.12 so trying to make $2.50 is far too much, how dare you try to generate money."

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#48

Post by that_guy_iain » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 7:52 AM UTC

voxelghost wrote: post #18

that_guy_iain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read deeply into the problem. And I've come to the conclusion the problem is cheap reddit users who don't want to pay for software. There are complaints that the offical app isn't accessible. Ok, pay for accessible software or complain enough to Reddit to fix their app. There are laws I believe to force them to have an accessible app. Mods use tools to moderate. Ok. You want to have a little hobby of moderating…

Mods use tools to moderate. Ok. You want to have a little hobby of moderating a community. Fair enough, pay for your hobby. If not. Let Reddit fix the spam problem when it becomes a problem, because it will become a problem and Reddit will be forced to fix it because the users will hate it and it'll harm growth. If not, pay for the software to do your little hobby. Actually, I think this is one point where Reddit cou…

Personally, I would. But they announced that they're working on their own tools to improve it so maybe they're literally just going to provide all those tools for free. Who knows.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#49

Post by Ekaros » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 8:08 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #6

that_guy_iain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't. There is a lot of talk of the price being unreasonable. Realistically, it's rather reasonable. The problem only comes in when these apps have failed to monetize subscriptions. In some cases, these apps are monetized by ads and therefore directly competing with Reddit for the ad buy. Seriously, I am meant to feel bad that someone who decided to directly compete with a company is now being charged mo…

Banning NSFW content has nothing to do with "reddit users being too cheap". It also doesn't cost reddit anything since content moderation is mostly done by moderators for free.

I think there is some perceived advertisement value. And some sales person might tell management that just banning NSFW might help pushing some number of more adds... Thus to get numbers up ban it.

Re: We're joining the Reddit blackout from June 12th to 14th

#50

Post by that_guy_iain » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 8:15 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #31

that_guy_iain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read deeply into the problem. And I've come to the conclusion the problem is cheap reddit users who don't want to pay for software. There are complaints that the offical app isn't accessible. Ok, pay for accessible software or complain enough to Reddit to fix their app. There are laws I believe to force them to have an accessible app. Mods use tools to moderate. Ok. You want to have a little hobby of moderating…

>You want to have a little hobby of moderating a community. Fair enough, pay for your hobby. not sure I agree with this angle. If anything it's the opposite. just like how software dev is a job, so is community management. Reddit already has what amounts to free custodial labor, growing and fostering the site for them. They should be paying people to moderate that if they don't want their admins/internal Community Ma…

True.

But just like software development, people do community management for a hobby.