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High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

torrentfreak.com

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Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#41

Here's a weird idea. Bundle materials into tuition expenses. It incentivizes the right people with the power and market participation to optimize for the right thing. Presumably, teachers and departments would have to justify costs from a materials budget to an admin forcing real downward pressure on the textbook market. The current state of textbooks acts like a surprise fee(dark pattern) where you purchase a produc…

Most of the professors I've had taught the course entirely with free materials. I think they went out of their way to avoid having students spend money. A top-down policy forcing all students to buy textbooks sounds like a way to take control away from these professors in order to further enrich the school and the publishers at students' expense.

I don't view textbook costs as a "dark pattern", they're an honest signal from the professor to the students. A professor who makes a $250 book mandatory and then barely uses it sends one kind of signal. A professor who goes out of their way to hunt down (or even scan) and provide free PDFs for all required readings sends another. Students receive these signals and they're reflected in professors' online ratings. To the extent possible (which is a large extent for some highly flexible programs, such as mine), students will go out of their way to drop and swap classes to avoid unpopular professors, further incentivizing faculty to keep these ancillary costs down.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#42

Won’t things like blanket student loan forgiveness or very cheap student loans make such moral hazards even worse? Publishers, college administrators, football coaches, etc. will try to extract as much as possible from the free student loans provided by the government.

Hang on there. A legal hazard is not necessarily a moral hazard.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#43
post #35
post #25

It’s so much worse than you think. Many textbooks come with license keys specifically so you can’t buy used books anymore. Students who do buy a used book are typically coerced into buying the license key to do digital homework, or whatever other reason. When I was teaching during a graduate fellowship I accepted paper assignments for students who bought used books, or who shared books with other students. The Pearso…

Why wouldn’t the dean tell them to go pound sand? Does Pearson do anything for the university except extracting money?

I did more or less. I said I’m the instructor of record I can decide how I take assignments. Next thing was “paperless” complaints. I was “using too much paper.” After a little back and forth they got tired of me, handed me a degree and told me to leave.

I think what really irked them was other students found out and started demanding it from all the real professors and adjuncts and in other contexts. Then I was an actual problem not just a troublemaker.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#44

Here's a weird idea. Bundle materials into tuition expenses. It incentivizes the right people with the power and market participation to optimize for the right thing. Presumably, teachers and departments would have to justify costs from a materials budget to an admin forcing real downward pressure on the textbook market. The current state of textbooks acts like a surprise fee(dark pattern) where you purchase a produc…

That's a bad idea; tuition is directly subsidized by student loans.

A better approach would be to allow student loan debt to be treated like any other debt during bankruptcy proceedings, as it was previously. It was only after bankruptcy protection was withheld from students that the student loan crisis and skyrocketing tuition became problems.

It's not like people used to file bankruptcy on graduation day just to screw over the system, so the changes to bankruptcy protection weren't actually addressing a real-world problem. Their only purpose is to shield institutions that are intentionally giving out bad loans.

Once that's done, sure, add textbooks to tuition. That way the university / student loan agency is taking on the risk that the book isn't worth potential future increases in the students' earnings.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like we have to peacefully protest until Citizens United gets overturned so the publishers can't just out lobby/spend us. Then continue peacefully protesting to change the tuition/book cost structure. Totally realistic set of goals, but until then I'll be pirating.

Don't try to externalize blame when it falls squarely on University Executives and Administrators. Their primary focus seems to be empire building: Create as many admin positions under me in the Org Chart as I can get away with and extract as much money from students as possible to fund the growth of my empire. This has been allowed to happen because they have essentially unlimited access to funding, no accountabilit…

So peacefully protest the University Executives and Administrators?

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#47

Won’t things like blanket student loan forgiveness or very cheap student loans make such moral hazards even worse? Publishers, college administrators, football coaches, etc. will try to extract as much as possible from the free student loans provided by the government.

Of course it would. There’s an argument that cheap student loans combined with need-based scholarships are one of the factors that caused college prices to balloon in the first place. Need based scholarships allow universities to charge everyone the maximum they’re willing to pay (“just give us your parent’s income and a ton of other data, and we’ll tell you how much you have to pay to go here!”)

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#48

Besides bleak job market, horrible healthcare, being potential homeless due to skyhigh housing cost, stark contrast to the boomer's easy life, the more extreme weathers and the climate change, textbook is probably an afterthought. It's not even in top 10 things to worry about

Millennials have more money than boomers did at the same age. There was no "boomer's easy life." That's a myth. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/05/millenn...

Are you sure about that? Have you actually talked to the students about the cost of everything right now? Especially the housing stats is such an easy stats to game on. They usually mean the family unit who owns the place they live in, so if a student who lives with his parents, the whole family would be considered as home owner.

Btw Im not a student and I lucked out in the tech. I just feel sorry for the current kids

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#50
For the business operations and analytics courses I teach, many of the available textbooks are outdated or out of touch with industry. Thankfully, our library has a license to subscription services like O’Reilly Media, which gives students “free” access to their books and learning platform.
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