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Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

nickbusey.com

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Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#41

Post by JohnFen »

bluGill wrote: post #33

> but takes more time than you think, and definitely slows me down. Are you sure? I mean have you done a real test with an independent observer using a stopwatch? Back in the 1980s Apple did run those tests and were able to setup many situations where an experience keyboard user was still faster with a mouse - but they all claimed to be faster with the keyboard. Now to some extent they were gaming the tests (not all…

In my view, whether or not you're actually faster isn't nearly as important as whether or not you feel faster.

Feeling faster means closer to a flow state, and so more productive. Actually faster does not automatically translate to increased productivity.

In the end, I think the best method is the method that the individual is most comfortable with.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#42

Post by stevebmark »

It's funny he mentions RSI, using a mechanical keyboard with greater key travel distance is worse for RSI than a flat low travel keyboard. The mouse is also much more efficient than the keyboard for many tasks, including in Vim. Reaching for the mouse doesn't affect the muscles related to RSI. In fact, for RSI, I'd say ditch Vim to avoid having to type constantly, since it's just a text editor, and use an IDE which gives you more powerful and automatic coding abilities.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#44

Post by JohnFen »

SebastianKra wrote: post #27

Ignoring the health concerns, which can be addressed with a vertical mouse, I don't think mice are necessarily slow. When navigating interfaces that are optimized for visual search, translating the area that I'm looking at into a series of keys requires more cognitive effort than just clicking it. When visually scanning, my I subconsciously move my cursor to the area that I'm looking at. Whether you want to use a mou…

> When visually scanning, my I subconsciously move my cursor to the area that I'm looking at.

I do this, too, but very consciously. It helps me to focus.

It's also why I tend to hate applications and websites that do things in response to merely moving the cursor to a magic spot.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#45

Post by charlie0 »

OGWhales wrote: post #43

Semi-related rant titled “Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983”: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/927593460642615296 It’s about the way software is designed around having a mouse, even when it doesn’t make sense.

I wish way more websites used the / or ctrl+k to bring up autocomplete menus like the Laravel or Tailwind websites.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#46

Post by ZseeBrz »

wanderingstan wrote: post #37

> Moving your hand from the keyboard to the mouse and back, is … a large cause of RSI Citation needed. When I had RSI the doctor noted that it was only in my non-mouse left hand. They said the moving of my hand between mouse and keyboard provided a relief for my hand, and recommended I move my non-mouse hand away from the keyboard more often.

Around 10yrs ago I started developing RSI in my right hand, I guess partly because of the mouse scroll wheel, so I started mousing mainly with my left hand, but switched back and forth if that was more comfortable. While it solved the main problem, still didn’t feel as comfortable as I wanted. Now I have the perfect solution: standing desk, mechanical TKL-keyboard, and two trackballs on each side. I wish Logitech made left-handed trackballs, but the left-handed Elecom wireless feels okay and looks similar to the MX Ergo

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#47

Post by helmholtz »

stevebmark wrote: post #42

It's funny he mentions RSI, using a mechanical keyboard with greater key travel distance is worse for RSI than a flat low travel keyboard. The mouse is also much more efficient than the keyboard for many tasks, including in Vim. Reaching for the mouse doesn't affect the muscles related to RSI. In fact, for RSI, I'd say ditch Vim to avoid having to type constantly, since it's just a text editor, and use an IDE which g…

My god, thank you! Why don't people talk more about key travel? I've had many types of keyboards. Split, tented, columnar layout. The one that does the best for me is a keychron low profile ten-keyless. Just because of the lower travel distance.

Hundred percent agree with the rest of your comment too. 'Vary it up' is the key to avoiding RSI. Almost a tautological point.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#48

Post by BasedAnon »

wanderingstan wrote: post #37

> Moving your hand from the keyboard to the mouse and back, is … a large cause of RSI Citation needed. When I had RSI the doctor noted that it was only in my non-mouse left hand. They said the moving of my hand between mouse and keyboard provided a relief for my hand, and recommended I move my non-mouse hand away from the keyboard more often.

When I developed bilateral carpal tunnel at 15, my trackpad hand was notably worse and it was greatly aggravated by trackpad use. The difference was so significant that I only bothered having surgery on my trackpad hand (right), I avoided surgery on my left so I keep it as my grabbing hand, since the pain wasn't nearly as bothersome and switching to programmer DVORAK significantly mitigated the pain I was experiencing in the first place.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#49

Post by lesona »

NickBusey wrote: post #4
porkbeer wrote: post #2

I still low key think the GUI is a crutch for less savvy users and inhibits professional use of most interfaces. There is use for analog input, but I often wonder if rotary encoders and sliders might be more intuitive than scroll bars and arrow keys for most uses. That said for some tasks the mouse is quite nice, and it will always have a place on my desk.

My previously favorite keyboard, Das Keyboard, has a rotary encoder for the volume control, and it's fantastic. I agree that sliders and encoders could/should be used more. There are plenty of great MIDI devices out there that offer them, I should play around with some of them for day to day stuff like this rather than just music.

Previously favorite? I'm looking for something to replace my current KB, and I was wondering what your current favorite is/why you like it better than Das keyboard.

Re: Exterminate your desk: How to remove your mouse

#50

Post by el-duderino42 »

Hmm, so while he was busy optimizing and learning and tweaking his keyboard setup, others invent game changing programming languages like Go, and then also write text editors that make heavy use of the mouse, and of mouse chording:

http://acme.cat-v.org/

So I’m sceptical whether this approach of spending ages on this really is that productive, cost-benefit-wise. Usually it doesn’t stop there, but this optimization becomes obsessive and conpulsive too often. Especially if they then also feel like they need to advertise for it in blog posts. Just the fact that the author thinks a mouse clutters up his desk seems to me like such a first world problem and a sign of lack of resilliency for real life. And before you know it your entire diet consists of vanilla ice cream, you pee in milk bottles that you collect, and you run strings through your house to erect borders for germ-free zones.

Besides it decreases compatibility and flexibility. “Oh, I need to do some Magic SysRQ shortcut. Oh, my keyboard doesn’t have the SysRQ key!” … “Oh, I need to ssh to a box to fix something. Oh, I’m so used to my heavily optimized nvim that I can’t operate the normal vi anymore!” … “Oh, I need to do some image manipulation. Oh, I have to spend 3 days learning and troubleshooting some GIMP keyboard shortcuts!” … “Oh, I need to connect to some completely out of date Java Applet based IPMI tool. Oh, to attach an iso image to it I need an obscure shortcut which I can’t do with my keyboard!”

I mean if none of these things ever happen, and one’s computer life is in such a narrow bubble that one can survive an entire year without it, then good for them, but I think for 99% of IT professionals it is either not worth it or impossible, and therefore irrelevant.

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