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Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

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Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#41

Post by felipellrocha »

mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

> I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are.

This statement makes no sense. We have a much higher cost of living here than in Europe.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#42

Post by meindnoch »

mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

>median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year

Whhhhaaaat? That doesn't sound right. I know a guy in Barcelona making $200k, although he works for a US company. Heck, even in Eastern Europe, with the right knowledge you can make $150k+.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#43

Post by sgt »

jorgemf wrote: post #30
kjghkjghkjgh wrote: post #14

"The average total compensation of a Software Engineer in Spain is €55,437." "The average total compensation of a Software Engineer in Portugal is €39,094."

Dont thrust those numbers. 50k € is a very high salary in Spain for a software developer. The average is probably closer to 35k €

How much would 50k EUR be in Spain after taxes, more or less?

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#44

Post by hef19898 »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those figures are wrong to be honest. Most senior folks in Spain don't work for Spanish companies in general; they work for EU companies that pay more. Plenty of senior folks in Spain making $100k+. In Barcelona, you can make north of $70K easy; even for non-senior devs. I agree with OP. The salary is way too low for a senior European developer to consider because taking a US job means that there are no employment pr…

North of $70K is still a ways away from $100K+ and I'd love to see which companies we're talking about here because that's not the news that reaches me from Spain. Rather the opposite.

Once you accept the fact that single income families don't afford real estate ownership, 70k is easily sufficient for a comfortable life. Again, assuming it is a double income household. It is so for the high price region in Southern Germany around Munich.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#45

Post by hiroman »

ddorian43 wrote: post #36
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?

This is the correct answer. If you really want to make it big in nearly whatever profession, you have to go america. All other countries are severely underpaid. (I don't care about Switzerland/similarities because it's just 3M people).

8.7M people to be precise :-)

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#47

Post by koliber »

nolok wrote: post #32
mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

I don't know this website but for France it says 38k€/year on average. Which means they're not using the total salary but the post employer's taxes. I'm using France for reference, and approximate number for the sake of explanation: for 100€ cost to the company, 40€ is employer's taxes, 20€ is employee's taxes. We call 20+40 = 60 the "gross" salary, and 40 the net salary, we never talk about the 100 when negotiating…

In the US, the salaries that are typically listed show the "gross" salary, the way you defined it. It contains the 40 net salary and the taxes on top of it.

There is also a portion of taxes and other insurance that the employer must pay. These are generally not summed up in job offers. They include the employer's part of social security, insurance, 401k contribution, and other benefit plans which are often part of an offer for a salaries position.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#48

Post by oezi »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #28
mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?

I think many Europeans can't imagine moving to the US (higher work load, less social safety, higher violence) and employers well know it and can keep salaries depressed.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#49

Post by koliber »

meindnoch wrote: post #42
mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

>median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year Whhhhaaaat? That doesn't sound right. I know a guy in Barcelona making $200k, although he works for a US company. Heck, even in Eastern Europe, with the right knowledge you can make $150k+.

That's correct. But those are the outliers, or at least at the very top of the range. The parent mentions median salary.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#50

Post by gamesbrainiac »

sgt wrote: post #37
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those figures are wrong to be honest. Most senior folks in Spain don't work for Spanish companies in general; they work for EU companies that pay more. Plenty of senior folks in Spain making $100k+. In Barcelona, you can make north of $70K easy; even for non-senior devs. I agree with OP. The salary is way too low for a senior European developer to consider because taking a US job means that there are no employment pr…

That can't be good for Spain's own IT industry e.g. national companies, or even government agencies wanting to employ senior IT personnel.

It isn't. It has pretty much decimated their industry to the point where there are no decent tech companies in Spain, and the few that exist do not pay those local rates (typeform for example).
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