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The Never Married, a New Normal

psychologytoday.com

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#41

Post by lukevp »

This is really surprising, but also interesting to hear. I think there’s a lot of societal pressure to both get married and to have children, especially in the south, where I’m from. Thankfully, my family never pushed these on me.

I’ve been with my wife for 13 years now, and married for 8. It’s been an awesome experience for us, but I know neither of us considered marrying any of our previous partners. If we hadn’t found each other, I’m not sure I’d be married at this point. Marriage in and of itself should probably not be a goal. It’s contingent on finding someone who you really want to be married to.

Having kids is the same way. It shouldn’t be the default, it should be the thing you do when you truly feel it would add value and meaning to your life, and be worth the tradeoffs you’re making. I hope that society moves more in the direction that both marriage and having children is something that you can choose to do, or not, and there’s not an implicit judgement on you for failing to meet norms that honestly don’t work out for the majority of people.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#42

Post by dubeye »

I'm guessing this is more to do with declining birth rates than anything else.

Much of the value of marriage is to enhance the child's claim to both parents' wealth and income. If married, it's much harder for one partner to tap out of parenting, in financial terms

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#43

Post by throwaway_75369 »

jitl wrote: post #10

My partner and I have been together for 7 years, we bought a house together, haven’t found a compelling reason to get married. Marriage is a complex and binding contract that for two high earners is a tax disadvantage. The most prominent benefits I’ve learned are some situations around visitation rights, and avoiding being compelled to testify against your spouse. It comes from a very dubious history of the husband e…

Hmm - TIL that Power of Attorney is not automatic for spouses (although I imagine it is set up practically by default for most people who get married, and the laws differ by state). (https://www.google.com/amp/s/estatelawatlanta.com/do-spouses...)

Seems like something folks would care about? It's adjacent to the "When I die, who gets my stuff?" part of the marriage contract which I remain convinced is the real reason governments need to be involved with marriage contracts. I also know a lot of folks who would rather their S.O. make medical decisions for them if they're debilitated than, say a sibling (especially if they're estranged).

But yeah, this doesn't explicitly prevent you from assigning power of attorney to an unmarried partner, of course.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#44

Post by bckr »

mkl95 wrote: post #24

I wonder if it relates to the decline in fertility in the last few decades. Is having kids a motivation for marriage? Could it be the other way around?

I think it has more to do with the decline in religiosity in the US.

Why get married? Typically there’s a wedding. That’s a ceremony involving you, your partner, both partners’ family and friends, and a religious and/or civic authority. You’re throwing a big party saying “we are committed to each other”.

When you’re very religious, this is required to become partnered and accepted as an adult in the community.

When you’re not religious, this is an incredibly expensive way of getting a bunch of other people involved in your relationship, which has a 50/50 chance of ending despite the life vows.

For some it might be beautiful. For others, there’s just no real point to it.

Personally, I’d be interested in a ceremony celebrating a commitment to cohabitation and partnership that sheds the baggage of a wedding and marriage. Something like a domestic partnership housewarming party.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#45

Post by dleslie »

dzogchen wrote: post #2

In the Netherlands, there is virtually no societal difference between people that are in a long-term relationship and live together, and married people. To the point that people call themselves husband and wife if they technically 'just' live together. My German girlfriend was shocked to learn this, in other countries (and cultures) marriage really is more of a 'thing'.

In BC, Canada, there is no practical legal difference between marriage and long term cohabitation. Not getting married and living together is rather normal, and comes with the same risk of financial segmentation and alimony or child support.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#46

Post by bckr »

swayvil wrote: post #14

30 year anniversary coming up. Never married. We figure what's the point. Sometimes we say husband and wife just to simplify the conversation.

Do you have power of attorney in a medical emergency?

Also congrats on building a relationship that has lasted.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#47

Post by jitl »

allturtles wrote: post #29
jitl wrote: post #10

My partner and I have been together for 7 years, we bought a house together, haven’t found a compelling reason to get married. Marriage is a complex and binding contract that for two high earners is a tax disadvantage. The most prominent benefits I’ve learned are some situations around visitation rights, and avoiding being compelled to testify against your spouse. It comes from a very dubious history of the husband e…

Tradition is a good enough reason for me. "But here, in our little village of Anatevka, you might say every one of us is a fiddler on the roof trying to scratch out a pleasant, simple tune without breaking his neck. It isn't easy. You may ask 'Why do we stay up there if it's so dangerous?' Well, we stay because Anatevka is our home. And how do we keep our balance? That I can tell you in one word: tradition!"

I saw a production of Fiddler maybe 15 years ago, but from what I remember its message was something like “don’t let tradition stand in the way of love”. My family has found plenty of ways to honor tradition while reshaping those traditions to also honor our values and views; our Seder Haggadah is full of taped-in pages like modern plagues and Miriam’s Cup, and crossed-out or edited sections like “the wicked child”. But a legal contract/institution is a bit more involved to edit and update…

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#48

Post by paulryanrogers »

> If they have sufficient resources, and most of the [permanently single] ones I see are financially independent, they are relatively content.

Rest of the article suggests "financially independent" as working a job to support oneself. Though I wonder if a significant portion of their clientele are wealthy enough to not work or only work a small portion of the year. When I was single and made enough to live alone it actually increased my desire to seek a partner, not necessarily get an official marriage document.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#49

Post by throwaway1492 »

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give up a lot of freedom and self. But I was ready to do it. I firmly believe what we’ve created is greater than either one of us, and is worth the irritations sacrifice.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#50

Post by [deleted] »

vinyl7 wrote: post #38
jitl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is marriage is a prerequisite to children? As far as I can tell, being unmarried or even single doesn’t prevent pregnancy.

Because its kinda frowned upon for a man to bail and leave the mother and children to fend for themselves.

[deleted]
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