Just please don't decarbonize my swords. I need them for work.
Now I want to know what you do for work that requires swords...
Maybe running cutting edge blade servers
How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
41–50 of 85 posts
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#42Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)
> Wenbo He, secretary of the Party Committee and executive chairman of the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), spoke about China’s green steel plans at the integration conference of green steel, green energy and green finance industries on March 2
https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/chinas-roadmap-to-green...
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are Wikipedia articles for 2015 Indian heat wave (2,500 dead), 2016 heat wave, 2019 heat wave, 2022 heat wave, and the current ongoing 2023 heat wave. 2021 Henan flood killed hundreds and forced evacuation of 800k people. Imagine what you want, but nobody's laughing any more.
Prisoner's dilemma. What better way to pay for flood walls and air conditioning, than profitable high-emission industry.
Except that isn’t true anymore. The tight coupling between economic development and CO2 emissions has been broken, and there’s no longer any reason to believe that high CO2 output industry is best way for developing countries to improve their standards of living.
The west might have burned its way to economic development, but developing nations are forging their own paths, and hydrocarbons aren’t the industrial requirement they used to be, or even the most economical way to producing energy. Choosing “green” alternatives also means choosing alternatives that faster and easier to deploy, work incredibly well in decentralised systems, and are often cheaper and easier to repair.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if at some point the EU should block the usage of dirty steel and only authorize carbon neutral steel. This would provide a great incentive for other countries to also invest in clean alternative.
> The Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism will apply to imports across several sectors, including steel and aluminum, forcing them to respect EU environmental standards. It will come into effect in 2026 or 2027. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/12/13/eu-...
yes, this is bigger news than people realize!
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#45The first solar-powered steel mill was recently built in Pueblo, Colorado: https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mi...
That's steel recycling, not production of new steel.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of…
> In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. Being charitable, it’d clearly be an environmental disaster if everyone in the world consumed oil at the per capita level of OECD countries. I imagine global oil consumption would multiply manyfold. > Wealthy countries pioneerin…
From my understanding, China's implementation rate for solar was still quite low. Would that not support the point that they're progressing the tech to sell to other countries?
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue. An engineering mind would never prefer high risk authoritarian enforcement of theoretical solutions to solve a problem. You are reducing diversity to shoot yourself in the foot
Was the EPA a mistake because heavy industry without dumping loads of shit in the rivers was a theoretical solution that reduced diversity?
Why do you think that is equivalent?
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#48The first solar-powered steel mill was recently built in Pueblo, Colorado: https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mi...
That's steel recycling, not production of new steel.
On a long enough time horizon wouldn’t it make sense for most steel to be recycled? I think we already get a lot of our aluminum from recycling.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#49Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)
Yes, they are. The bank is Europe.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#50Only in the absurd world of carbon credits is this required - something that is nearly impossible to do any other way - that contributes practically nothing to global CO2 vs the incredible benefit to society it proffers - has to stop. Why?
> Only in the absurd world of carbon credits is this required - something that is nearly impossible to do any other way - that contributes practically nothing to global CO2 vs the incredible benefit to society it proffers - has to stop. Why?
Every individual action "contributes practically nothing to global CO2", so with this argument, nothing should ever be done.
But this is a strawman argument regardless: globally, steelmaking contributes ~11% of direct CO2 emissions[1]. Other countries[2] are progressing towards decarbonization. Per this very article, Europe will subsidize initially (progressively replacing subsidization with import tariffs over the next decade). And the whole point of all of this is to "internalize the externalities" - recognize that carbon emissions aren't free: Steel is incredibly emissions intensive, and free emissions lead it to be used in areas where other materials would be better from an emissions perspective.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaking#Carbon_dioxide_emi...
[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/algoma-steel-420milli...