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When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

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Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#41

Post by renewiltord »

rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

I use Copilot with nvim and C-x C-e at my terminal. I can use it to build out pipelines in the shell so easily it's crazy.

But in the end, it's just a tool. If it isn't working for you, it isn't working for you. For me, I prefer thinking in what structure to me as bigger building blocks.

So I prefer vim bindings because I used up teenage time learning it. And now I don't think in terms of characters but in terms of text-blocks.

I prefer writing Java in IntelliJ and Rust in Clion because I don't think in char terms since I can use the built-in refactor tools. E.g. I write functions inline and then extract them rather than writing them as functions and calling.

Likewise when I'm at the shell I think of pipelines as less than pieces. Being an experienced shell user I can usually write a parallel pipeline with conditionals and loops correct first time verbally with no computer usually.

But my copilot flow is improved even better. I talk to the computer in components:

# get all private ip addresses in Alibaba region cn-zhangjiakou ips=...prompted text... # ssh to each and check last long line ...Prompted text...

It's faster than me and this is great for r-i-search with fzf.

Overall, quite happy. But just a tool.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#42

Post by TaylorAlexander »

rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

For writing I find it makes an excellent rubber duck. I absolutely do not expect it to write long form prose for me, but I can explain what I am trying to say and talk to it about how I might present that information.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#44

Post by PartiallyTyped »

weinzierl wrote: post #23

I think pg underestimates the amount of trivial and mundane copy most people write day in day out. Be it stupid Jira tickets, spec documents, school essays with standardized expectations or formulaic messages and emails. Not much ability to lose there, but AI is a tremendous timesaver. A pg quality essay is a whole other story but I doubt AI is much useful there in its current state.

> I think pg underestimates the amount of trivial and mundane copy most people write day in day out.

Can attest. I had to write a bunch of definitions and do some preliminary research though nothing very technical. I asked chatGPT, it listed a bunch of stuff, I looked around the net, found some more hints, asked again; then I had the model to collect everything for me into a neat little markdown doc, and shared that.

Saved me a couple of hours of searching and writing useless / boring stuff.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#45

Post by sberens »

rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

5 minutes ago I copy pasted a 200 line react component and asked ChatGPT to explain why I was getting a certain bug. Although it didn't quite get it right, it allowed me to quickly identify the cause.

It only needs to save 10 minutes of my time a month for it to be worth the $20 - I would estimate it saves hours.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#46

Post by dbtc »

rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

I think that you are at least using the same one that I am.

"Hype" can also mean marketing.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#47

Post by dbtc »

imtringued wrote: post #16
rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

Everyone knows that using ChatGPT is about signalling your non Luddite status so that the police won't go after you.

I noticed that you haven't been talking to your AI very much lately, what's wrong?

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#48

Post by mlboss »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #30
zmmmmm wrote: post #4

Interestingly enough, you can reverse this statement: "when you gain the ability to write, you gain the ability to think" - and in part gain some insight into how LLMs seem to suddenly have "emergent" behaviour to perform quite impressive feats of logic.

When you turn the handle on a mechanical computer and get an output, has the computer gained the ability to understand maths or think? No. When you give the LLM an input and you get an output, has it gained the ability to understand or think? No.

The real question is "How can you prove that somebody/something has the ability to think ?". If LLM can reason and answer satisfactorily based on context I would deduce that it can think.

What is the argument that human does not have transformer architecture. We are also predicting one word after next in our brain.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#49

Post by hoseja »

rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

It seems really great at vacuous american essaywriting.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#50

Post by ly3xqhl8g9 »

This reads like Plato's warning (through Socrates' words) 2,400 years ago that writing will make people forgetful:

"For this invention [writing] will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise." [1]

[1] Phaedrus 275a-b, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

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